First Sweep in 5 year! Creosote

[ColetteFisher]

Hi Everyone, So where to begin. I have a Jotul F 3CB Installed 5 years ago in our fireplace, we had a liner and cap installed. The fireplace has a brick chimney that is in half inisde the house, and maybe 8 feet of it is outside. There is a little insulation just above the stove, and a little near top. The chimney liner exits the top of my jotul and goes on a slight angle for about 2 feet before turning straight up to go to the cap.

I have burned 5.5 years. The first 1-2 years we burned mostly on weekend, but used a blend of kiln dry(most hard good wood) and blend of wet soft wood. Maybe 1-2 cords in two years. then for rest just burned kiln dried, medium/hard woods. Maybe a bout a 1 cord a year, mostly from November to March in New England.

we made the mistake of not getting our first sweep until today. we were getting lots of smoke, and when I closely inspected and looked inside I could see a gob of creosote coming down the line as in the pictures. Its hard to see, but it was probably blocking 20% of the liner. Plus there was lots of loose stuff sitting on top of the stove( inside) not sure what that is called.

I had a sweep company come by today and swept it three times, in about 30-40 minutes, and got what you see out, but didnt get everything. the pcitures of the lining are AFTER the sweep, the pictures with Creosate are before. The person doing the sweep said they couldnt get the rest off, as in pictures, and that I would need a new liner, cap, insulation, and not to worry that it would only be@4- 5K. WHICH WE WERE SHOCKED AS A LOT OF $$$$ I was told they got a lot out, but as you can see in pics there is still smome.

THoughts? I was thinking of trying some of creosote removal products, and see if that helps and keep an eye on things, and just get another sweep after this season, and burning some of the products that claim to break down stage 3 creosote. Any ideas? As you can imagine I am pretty stressed about this. Cheers!

Randy & Colette!

 

[bholler]

Hi Everyone, So where to begin. I have a Jotul F 3CB Installed 5 years ago in our fireplace, we had a liner and cap installed. The fireplace has a brick chimney that is in half inisde the house, and maybe 8 feet of it is outside. There is a little insulation just above the stove, and a little near top. The chimney liner exits the top of my jotul and goes on a slight angle for about 2 feet before turning straight up to go to the cap.

I have burned 5.5 years. The first 1-2 years we burned mostly on weekend, but used a blend of kiln dry(most hard good wood) and blend of wet soft wood. Maybe 1-2 cords in two years. then for rest just burned kiln dried, medium/hard woods. Maybe a bout a 1 cord a year, mostly from November to March in New England.

we made the mistake of not getting our first sweep until today. we were getting lots of smoke, and when I closely inspected and looked inside I could see a gob of creosote coming down the line as in the pictures. Its hard to see, but it was probably blocking 20% of the liner. Plus there was lots of loose stuff sitting on top of the stove( inside) not sure what that is called.

I had a sweep company come by today and swept it three times, in about 30-40 minutes, and got what you see out, but didnt get everything. the pcitures of the lining are AFTER the sweep, the pictures with Creosate are before. The person doing the sweep said they couldnt get the rest off, as in pictures, and that I would need a new liner, cap, insulation, and not to worry that it would only be@4- 5K. WHICH WE WERE SHOCKED AS A LOT OF $$$$ I was told they got a lot out, but as you can see in pics there is still smome.

THoughts? I was thinking of trying some of creosote removal products, and see if that helps and keep an eye on things, and just get another sweep after this season, and burning some of the products that claim to break down stage 3 creosote. Any ideas? As you can imagine I am pretty stressed about this. Cheers!

Randy & Colette!


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Did he scan it and see damage to the liner or did he just recommend replacement because he couldn't get it clean?

 

[MMH]

This is why it’s important to use good seasoned wood (alas a lot of places claim kiln dry and it isn’t unless it’s certified etc), and to sweep annually if not more depending on circumstances.

 

[ColetteFisher]

he didn’t mention any damage Just mentioned he couldn’t all of the Creosote and blamed the corrugated lining design, chimney cap, and no insulation in chimney and the obvious no sweep in 5 years. Any thoughts or ideas ?

 

[begreen]

If the integrity of the liner is still good then it might be worth trying a quality creosote removal product to break up the glaze. Do you have any pictures from the top of the liner?

How tall is this liner? The quote of $4-5K seems very high. Are there extenuating circumstances?

 

[bholler]

he didn’t mention any damage Just mentioned he couldn’t all of the Creosote and blamed the corrugated lining design, chimney cap, and no insulation in chimney and the obvious no sweep in 5 years. Any thoughts or ideas ?

Hr is right it should be insulated. And at this point it probably needs chemical cleaning which can be very expensive.

 

[ColetteFisher]

Some good questions, I will do some research. and reply back soon. I believe most of the creosote was closer to the stove. I am waiting for a more official report, and costs and will share for your inputs. this site is amazing, I have read alot about Creosote on here. I take it a lot of the products that you can burn wouldnt be that helpful at this stage?

 

[BigJ273]

Just a side note, I’d say you’re very lucky you didn’t have a chimney fire.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

if theres no damage to anything i'd still use it and just get it cleaned every year from now on. You're never gonna get all the creosote off ribbed liners like that anyways and if you didnt have a chimney fire already i doubt you have anything to worry about going forward and cleaning once a year. I certainly wouldnt replace a liner just cause its kind of dirty. Burn dry wood, see what you got next year and decide if an insulated liner if warranted then.

 

[Dataman]

Personally I would not gamble on Chimney Fire. But get 2nd Opinion if you can.

 

[bholler]

Personally I would not gamble on Chimney Fire. But get 2nd Opinion if you can.

Especially in an uninsulated liner that doesn't have that extra layer of protection for your house

 

[bholler]

if theres no damage to anything i'd still use it and just get it cleaned every year from now on. You're never gonna get all the creosote off ribbed liners like that anyways and if you didnt have a chimney fire already i doubt you have anything to worry about going forward and cleaning once a year. I certainly wouldnt replace a liner just cause its kind of dirty. Burn dry wood, see what you got next year and decide if an insulated liner if warranted then.

You absolutely can clean all of the creosote out of ribbed liners like that. And if they actually start burning correctly with dry wood they could easily light off the remaining creosote.

 

[ColetteFisher]

You absolutely can clean all of the creosote out of ribbed liners like that. And if they actually start burning correctly with dry wood they could easily light off the remaining creosote.

What are some good ways to clean creosote out of the ribbed liners? Using AES, or Rutland products then a good brush?

 

[ColetteFisher]

Just a side note, I’d say you’re very lucky you didn’t have a chimney fire.

YES VERRRRRYYYY. LUCKY.

 

[bholler]

What are some good ways to clean creosote out of the ribbed liners? Using AES, or Rutland products then a good brush?

It depends how thick and hard the glaze is. Those products can help.but when I say chemical cleaning I am talking about pro only chemicals that don't require a fire to use. Most of them need neutralized afterwards so they don't eat your liner. The problem with the lightwall liners like yours is more that the metal is so thin you can't clean aggressively at all more than the ribs.

 

[ColetteFisher]

It depends how thick and hard the glaze is. Those products can help.but when I say chemical cleaning I am talking about pro only chemicals that don't require a fire to use. Most of them need neutralized afterwards so they don't eat your liner. The problem with the lightwall liners like yours is more that the metal is so thin you can't clean aggressively at all more than the ribs.

Ok, they Creosote that is left is maybe the thickness of a penny? That is what I can see, I still waiting to hear back how far up the liner it is? If I didnt have snow on the roof, I'd go up and look at the top of my liner as I was interested to see how thick it was there? Do Cresote build from the fireplace and works it way up, or make its way down from top or where the cold temp is? or does it vary greatly?!?! Cheers

 

[begreen]

You absolutely can clean all of the creosote out of ribbed liners like that. And if they actually start burning correctly with dry wood they could easily light off the remaining creosote.

This seems worth checking out and why pictures of the top section of the liner would be helpful. That said, for peace of mind consider getting the liner insulated and burn dry wood from now on.

 

[savageactor7]

If you're using a chimney cap...I'd start by removing that.

Burn fewer smaller seasoned splits but hotter and no unattended fires for the short term.

To clean a chimney 3X in less than an hour suggests a short chimney to me so why didn't the sweep try a larger brush and spend an entire hour on this...lets try another cleaner/opinion.

imo the liner is doing its job and its never going to look new again.

But that black glassy creosolt could touch off if it were me I'd put in an inline damper that I could damper down if I heard a chimney fire...

...I put one in, and thankfully have never used it...like our fire extinguisher.

 

[bholler]

If you're using a chimney cap...I'd start by removing that.

Why liner systems are designed to work with caps every one we install gets one and they don't cause issues.

Burn fewer smaller seasoned splits but hotter and no unattended fires for the short term.

Why fewer splits? They just need to start burning dry fuel at proper temps.

To clean a chimney 3X in less than an hour suggests a short chimney to me so why didn't the sweep try a larger brush and spend an entire hour on this...lets try another cleaner/opinion.

This is a pro if I am cleaning with a brush I am up and down the chimney 3x in roughly 5 mins. Rotary cleaning once in maybe 5 mins. If it was a heavier liner and still had buildup I would switch to cables. Run them then chains if need be but those cannot be used in a lightwall liner. You also can't just go to a larger or stiffer brush without damaging the liner. I agree he was wrong to recommend replacement because it is dirty. But personally I would probably recommend replacement with a heavier insulated liner.

And yes if being used properly it shouldn't look much different than new.

 

[bholler]

Ok, they Creosote that is left is maybe the thickness of a penny? That is what I can see, I still waiting to hear back how far up the liner it is? If I didnt have snow on the roof, I'd go up and look at the top of my liner as I was interested to see how thick it was there? Do Cresote build from the fireplace and works it way up, or make its way down from top or where the cold temp is? or does it vary greatly?!?! Cheers

It is usually much worse as it goes up the chimney and the smoke cools.

 

[bholler]

Just a side note, I’d say you’re very lucky you didn’t have a chimney fire.

There are burnt chunks of creosote there. They did have atleast one fire

 

[jetsam]

There are burnt chunks of creosote there. They did have atleast one fire

Which picture, and please explain how you can tell? This is a thing I've never had a chance to see before.

 

[bholler]

Which picture, and please explain how you can tell? This is a thing I've never had a chance to see before.

The chunk the guy is holding in his hand.

 

[savageactor7]

bholler, I recommended taking off the cap because it was restricting the smoke and it's what their sweep said as well...if I understood the follow up post correctly.

As far caps being designed for liners etc, yes that's true but these systems are tested in the perfect environment. Seasoned splits, correct temp etc that's not 'average joe's' experience.

Imo the industry puts the public in the wrong mindset trumping how long stoves will burn. When these expectations are not met folks crank it down which in my experience creates creosote.

A smaller hotter fire still produces usable heat and very little creosote; of course that requires more tending, which, to me is part of the wood burning charm.

That to me is good advice for the occasional burner, like I thought the OP was.

 

[bholler]

bholler, I recommended taking off the cap because it was restricting the smoke and it's what their sweep said as well...if I understood the follow up post correctly.

As far caps being designed for liners etc, yes that's true but these systems are tested in the perfect environment. Seasoned splits, correct temp etc that's not 'average joe's' experience.

Imo the industry puts the public in the wrong mindset trumping how long stoves will burn. When these expectations are not met folks crank it down which in my experience creates creosote.

A smaller hotter fire still produces usable heat and very little creosote; of course that requires more tending, which, to me is part of the wood burning charm.

That to me is good advice for the occasional burner, like I thought the OP was.

Yes the sweep blamed the cap but he also blamed the coregated liner as well which is not a problem. The problem is wet wood improper operation and inadequate maintenance. An insulated liner will certainly help but won't work miracles.


I work for lots and lots of average joe's who's caps work just fine for them. Running without a cap will result in water in the stove leading to rust

Small hot fires don't make any less creosote that a fully loaded stove run properly. Infact it can potentially make more wood stoves run best fully loaded and run at proper temps.