First time installing an insert

[jdk022]

Hey all,

I’m new to the forum and wood burning in general. After a few winters in our current home we found the open hearth fireplace isn’t very functional for supplemental heat and decided to buy a wood insert. I was able to pick up a used Lopi Declaration for a reasonable price and am getting ready to install it while the weather is still warm.

Before I order all the parts, I wanted to run it by some more seasoned folks. My chimney is ~21’ from the throat damper to top of the terra cotta. It has a 10” stainless liner that appears to have poured insulation around it. The damper opening is just shy of 6”. Im planning on running a 6” Olympia 0.010” hybrid liner through the existing liner, which seems like it should fit pretty comfortably once I cut out the lip off the damper frame. I’m debating whether or not to add additional insulation, but leaning toward adding a 1/2” blanket. Is this worth the additional cost and effort?

One odd part of this install is the fire grates. They are square tube steel mortared into the hearth and appear to be part of a heatilator type setup, though I’ve never seen one quite like this. I imagine I’ll have to cut them off flush to the brick. Has anyone encountered a situation like this before?

Any additional thoughts or advice? Thanks!

 

[gthomas785]

Definitely add the 1/2" blanket. You basically cannot have too much insulation on a chimney and it will really help the performance a lot. Since so much of that chimney is exposed to outdoor temps you will want as much insulation as you can get. Think about how you will seal off the damper throat around the liner (search "block-off plate" on this forum) and plan for that too, to minimize heat loss.

That grate along with the vents below it does look like some kind of attempt at a heat recovery device. What is the vintage of this fireplace and house? Anyway, a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder would make short work of that and you can fill the remaining holes with mortar.

That chimney rises pretty high above the roof. How are you planning to get the liner in there? Do you have access to some staging or a lift you can use?

 

[jdk022]

Definitely add the 1/2" blanket. You basically cannot have too much insulation on a chimney and it will really help the performance a lot. Since so much of that chimney is exposed to outdoor temps you will want as much insulation as you can get. Think about how you will seal off the damper throat around the liner (search "block-off plate" on this forum) and plan for that too, to minimize heat loss.

That grate along with the vents below it does look like some kind of attempt at a heat recovery device. What is the vintage of this fireplace and house? Anyway, a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder would make short work of that and you can fill the remaining holes with mortar.

That chimney rises pretty high above the roof. How are you planning to get the liner in there? Do you have access to some staging or a lift you can use?

Thanks for the input. I’m glad I wasn’t off base on wanting to spend the extra for insulation.

I’m definitely planning to make a block off plate. I was thinking of cutting 22ga stainless sheet to fit around the liner and securing it with tapcons and hi temp silicone. I have a bunch of rock wool r15 batts left over from another project that I’d like to stuff above it but I don’t think it’s rated for that use.

The house was built in the early 90s and I’m assuming all of the fireplace is original, but maybe the liner was added after the fact?

I don’t have a lift but I can get up to the top with an extension ladder on leveling feet. Getting the liner up there and running it down would definitely be tricky. I was hoping I could pull the liner from the bottom with someone helping push it up. It’s a pretty straight shot once it’s through the damper.

 

[EbS-P]

stainless

Overkill. Galvanized is fine. You shouldn’t be able to see it.
If you insist on the ladder be super safe. Personally I get a towable lift for the second half of the day. Make some type of crank winch to help pull the liner up. Make sure you know how you will keep it in place (not falling down. ) to get the top plate on. It’s going to take a lot more work than you think.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

First step should be to contact your insurance company and make sure that they’re OK with a DIY install.
Definitely insulate the liner with the half inch wrap insulation. As mentioned, this may help us smidge with performance, but most importantly, it’s protection to nearby combustibles from the heat off of the stainless liner. If you don’t have enough room to get through the damper, then that can be cut out a bit to allow for room.
Because you’re at the thinking stage currently, this is the time to make sure you get certain things done the best they can be. Many people, including myself would recommend getting either a hybrid or heavy wall stainless liner. Both of these would be smooth on the interior and that’ll be helpful to you when it comes to cleaning time. Also, there is a two ply product out there that is very commonly used that is very much frowned upon in general. Without specifying liner type, the vast majority of installers would put in a standard flexible stainless steel liner, which is very thin. I’m not a professional, but I got my hands on a sample piece of the light wall liners once and used and they’re are just that, thin. I would not say that they’re blatantly unsafe or anything, but if you’re at the beginning of this process, I’d spend the extra bit of money on a really good liner.
Just to add on about being up on a ladder. If it were me, I’d spend the money to get up there as safely as possible. If this is your first time doing this, you don’t want to spend half of your mental energy trying not to fall backwards off the ladder.

 

[jdk022]

First step should be to contact your insurance company and make sure that they’re OK with a DIY install.
Definitely insulate the liner with the half inch wrap insulation. As mentioned, this may help us smidge with performance, but most importantly, it’s protection to nearby combustibles from the heat off of the stainless liner. If you don’t have enough room to get through the damper, then that can be cut out a bit to allow for room.
Because you’re at the thinking stage currently, this is the time to make sure you get certain things done the best they can be. Many people, including myself would recommend getting either a hybrid or heavy wall stainless liner. Both of these would be smooth on the interior and that’ll be helpful to you when it comes to cleaning time. Also, there is a two ply product out there that is very commonly used that is very much frowned upon in general. Without specifying liner type, the vast majority of installers would put in a standard flexible stainless steel liner, which is very thin. I’m not a professional, but I got my hands on a sample piece of the light wall liners once and used and they’re are just that, thin. I would not say that they’re blatantly unsafe or anything, but if you’re at the beginning of this process, I’d spend the extra bit of money on a really good liner.
Just to add on about being up on a ladder. If it were me, I’d spend the money to get up there as safely as possible. If this is your first time doing this, you don’t want to spend half of your mental energy trying not to fall backwards off the ladder.

The liner I’m looking at is an Olympia Forever Flex hybrid. They advertise it as smooth wall single ply at .010” thick. I think this is a middleweight liner but it’s the heaviest I could find readily available. The kit comes with an appliance connection, top plate and rain cap. Are there better options?

The existing liner is a straight shot from just above the damper (see crappy quality picture below) so I’m hoping it won’t be too difficult to pull/push through.

As far as the ladder situation. I inspected the crown using a 36’ ladder from the ground but I can use an 8’ ladder with a wedge to access it from the roof, which should be a lot more comfortable. If I’m unable to pull it up I’ll have to rent a lift.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

A hybrid liner is a good choice. Be safe and good luck!

 

[gthomas785]

You can try pulling it up if you have some help pushing from the bottom, but usually it's easier to drop from the top, gravity on your side and all that. Since you've got a helper, I'd have him stand on the roof and manage the loose end of the liner while you stuff it down.

If you can do it safely from the ladder - great. You are able to assess the situation better than anyone here on this forum. Renting the lift could be a worthwhile one-time expense to change this job from hair-raising to easy-peasy.