first time wood insert user

[idahomousejockey]

We had a quadrafire 4100 wood insert installed last summer and it was barely cold enough to use it today, but since I wanted to burn in the insert with the windows open, figured it was a good time.



I got the insert as an excuse to use my chainsaw... well to posibly be a main source of heat too.



So how much wood can I cram in there (after I have a nice bed of coals) with the air controls all the way out (least amount of airflow)?

Also there is a lot of build up on the glass. I am burning seasoned lodgepoll pine. It seems to me, if I get the fire hot enough it should burn that off the glass, right?


Finally I am worried about carbon monoxide. I picked up one that gives a read out for the lower level where the insert is and one for the ceiling of the upper level where we sleep. Should I be leaving a window cracked or are my poorly sealed doors enough?


thanks

Jeff

 

[Pagey]

Welcome to the forums, Jeff. When I did my break in fires in my free standing Endeavor, I did a series of 3 or 4 fires to cure the paint. The first fire was simply newspaper and kindling. Once the stove was cool to the touch, I did the same up added about 4 splits that were anywhere from 1-3" across. Again, after cool to the touch, I did the same plus about 2-3 full size splits. After that, the break in smell was gone, and I began building regular fires.

Some manufacturers will recommend that you don't load up past the top of the fire brick. Other manufacturers don't specify. Check your manual, just to be sure, but it's a good rule of thumb to not load the stove up so that the wood is touching the burn tubes, for example.

I've found that burning seasoned wood (cut, split, and stacked for one year, at least), I get very little buildup on my glass unless it's when I have the air turned down for a longer, overnight burn. If the glass is cool enough in the morning, I clean mine then. Otherwise, I just load up and the hot fire burns away 99% of it. A thin white film will accumulate over time, however, that will require manual cleaning.

I'm afraid I can't offer any CO advice or experience, but it's always a good idea to have a meter in the house. If your doors/windows are like mine, your stove will exchange enough outside air with stale inside air.

 

[begreen]

Burning in the new stove is not like burning in an old air-tight, pre EPA stove. In fall and spring, try smaller hot fires instead of big, choked down fires. They will burn much more cleanly. I don't have the 4100 manual handy, but the guidelines for the 4300 are pretty good:

"1. Kindling or First Stage
It helps to know a little about the actual process of burning in
order to understand what goes on inside a stove. The first
stage of burning is called the kindling stage. In this stage, the
wood is heated to a temperature high enough to evaporate the
moisture which is present in all wood. The wood will reach
the boiling point of water (212°F) and will not get any hotter
until the water is evaporated. This process takes heat from
the coals and tends to cool the appliance.
Fire requires three things to burn - fuel, air and heat. So, if
heat is robbed from the appliance during the drying stage,
the new load of wood has reduced the chances for a good
clean burn. For this reason, it is always best to burn dry,
seasoned firewood. When the wood isn’t dry, you must
open the air controls and burn at a high burn setting for a
longer time to start it burning. The heat generated from the
fire should be warming your home and establishing the flue
draft, not evaporating the moisture out of wet, unseasoned
wood, resulting in wasted heat.

2. Second Stage
The next stage of burning, the secondary stage, is the period
when the wood gives off flammable gases which burn above
the fuel with bright flames. During this stage of burning it is
very important that the flames be maintained and not allowed
to go out. This will ensure the cleanest possible fire. If the
flames tend to go out, it is set too low for your burning conditions.
The air control located at the upper right hand corner
is used to adjust for burn rates. This is called the Burn Rate
Air Control. Figure 26.1.

3. Final Stage
The final stage of burning is the charcoal stage. This occurs
when the flammable gases have been mostly burned and only
charcoal remains. This is a naturally clean portion of the burn.
The coals burn with hot blue flames.
It is very important to reload your appliance while enough
lively hot coals remain in order to provide the amount of heat
needed to dry and rekindle the next load of wood. It is best
to open the Burn Rate Air and Start-Up Air Controls before
reloading. This livens up the coalbed and reduces excessive
emissions (opacity/smoke). Open door slowly so that ash or
smoke does not exit appliance through opening. You should
also break up any large chunks and distribute the coals so
that the new wood is laid on hot coals."


In general I never put a full load of wood on a bed of coals without giving it some air until secondary combustion has started. Then I back off the air until the secondary combustion becomes lazy, sometimes billowy or wraith-like. That is where I will leave the air until secondary combustion dies down. During a hot secondary burn, all blackness on the glass should burn off. If it isn't try giving the fire a bit more air.

CO should not be an issue with a correctly installed stove. But it is a good idea to have a CO monitor set up for peace of mind and as insurance that if something did go wrong, there would be an early alert.

 

[BrotherBart]

I am a believer in not loading the stove up past the top of the firebrick. That open area on top is the combustion chamber for the secondary burn. I have tested it both ways and I get the same burn time and heat with not going over the top of the bricks as I do loading all the way to the top. When you pack it full the secondary tubes just torch the top of the wood instead of burning gases coming off the load.

Others will argue of course but that is what I observed trying it both ways last season.

And don't expect to be able to close the primary air all the way down. On some stoves with good dry wood you can do it after a good burn is established but it isn't unusual to leave the primary at 25% or so for a good steady burn. If you are crapping up the glass either your wood isn't dry enough or you are shutting the air down too far and/or too soon. A natural reaction is to think that those flames are burning up your wood too soon. They aren't. They are heating the joint.

 

[firefighterjake]

How much wood? Largely depends on what the manufacturer says . . . I tend to load my stove up for the overnight burns . . . but if truth be told there's often quite a bit of space left at the top of the firebox since I don't believe that I have to take up every square inch of the firebox.

Build up? Usually caused by unseasoned wood (most folks recommend cutting and splitting your wood for over a year before using) or turning down the air too much or not running the fire hot enough. Last year I tended to close it down to 25% and get decent burns without choking the fire or causing a lot of smudging on the glass. This year I've already seen some improvement in my wood . . . I've had a couple fires where I was able to close down the air to nothing (well not nothing since these stoves are designed to always have some air coming in.)

As mentioned, a hot fire can "clean" a lot of the smudges. How hot do you get the fire in the firebox . . . assuming you have a thermometer . . . if you don't have one . . . get one . . . a very useful tool for burning better and more efficiently (and to make sure you don't overfire.) I find that sometimes a fire may look a lot hotter than it actually is . . . and conversely I've had fires look like they're running a lot "cooler" and have discovered they're actually putting out some serious heat.

Carbon monoxide? Personally, I wouldn't worry as much about CO with a woodstove compared to say an oil boiler, natural gas or propane boiler or furnace. . . that said, I highly recommend folks still get a CO detector as I firmly believe in them and there is always the potential for CO with a wood burner. You should not need to crack any windows . . . the CO produced in the fire should be exiting the chimney if it is working properly. In general, having one to two CO detectors should be fine . . . and since CO tends to rise when heated and then rapidly "fall" to every level in the room when cooled placing the CO detector high or low should not be as critical.