Fisher Fireplace Insert Question

[mogli]

I am looking at one of these stoves currently, it is installed in the persons home. I was wondering if you know the width of the back of the stove and how deep it goes beyond the flashing. Thanks. Just want to make sure it will fit. He wont let me pull it out unless I buy it.

 

[BigZ_87]

I am looking at one of these stoves currently, it is installed in the persons home. I was wondering if you know the width of the back of the stove and how deep it goes beyond the flashing. Thanks. Just want to make sure it will fit. He wont let me pull it out unless I buy it.

I have all my measurements at home, but I believe it is around 18-20 inches that sits in the actual fireplace. I can let you know for sure after I get home this evening.

 

[coaly]

Here's the dimensions IF it's a full size Insert.

 

[mogli]

Here's the dimensions IF it's a full size Insert.

View attachment 140022

I do believe it is. Thanks


(broken link removed to http://syracuse.craigslist.org/hsh/4680876789.html)

there's the exact one I am looking at

 

[coaly]

Looks like Metallic Brown ?



Good deal with blower and face plate parts.
I wouldn't be surprised if the door was repainted over brass trim. Could be brass and glass !

Here's what the doors look like and many get painted over. Try lacquer thinner to see if it's plated under paint. If so, NOTHING abrasive. Only metal polish. Here's a before and after;



Brass and Glass is really sharp with the optional Metallic Brown still made by Stove Bright.

 

[mogli]

ok so i have an issue the fireplace I want to convert. It is 26" at the opening but tapers in towards the back. At 19 1/2" deep the opening only measures 24" Is the any way to either remove some brick(grind away) or should I shore out the front of the stove to have it not go in as deep into the fireplace.

 

[coaly]

I take that to mean the 24 inch taper is ACROSS. The top tapering down to 24 is fine since the back of Insert is tapered to match.

Only slide the Insert in until it hits. If connecting to a liner like you should, it doesn't matter. If the faceplate is being used to seal the front of fireplace opening as shown in manual, the space needs to be sealed between faceplate and hearth front.
There cannot be any way for inside air to leak up chimney. So the faceplate seal then becomes important.

 

[mogli]

can you show an example a proper install, ie liner and faceplate seal, when i pulled that stove I looked the was only some loose insulation so I doubt it was properly installed. I want to do this properly but have only dealt with standalone wood stove installs before. Thanks

 

[coaly]

If the outlet of Insert simply exhausted up the chimney, it was installed as designed to use the existing flue. A liner would require an adapter called a "Boot" that would be mounted on the Insert and connects to a stainless steel pipe, like a tube that goes all the way up the chimney. This keeps the flue size smaller and insulation can be added around liner to keep it hotter inside. This increases draft and decreases creosote build up. When invented, they were made to easily slide into and use existing hearth and chimney. So there was no boot made to fit the top. They are available made of cast iron, pictured below, thick sheet metal, or stainless.

The integral original damper and rod goes under the boot, so the stainless type is easier to notch for damper rod.

If the Insert is slid into hearth without an airtight connection to flue, the heated flue will not only draw air through the fire (through the Insert air intakes) but it will allow air leakage around the Insert. This is the cooler indoor air you don't want leaking up the chimney cooling the flue, reducing draft, and causing creosote build up due to cooler flue temp. So without a boot and liner, the faceplate seal is important, which in your case would not be flat against the hearth, so the faceplate needs to be sealed with spacers to prevent air leakage around the Insert.

Bottom line is; ALL air must go THROUGH Insert and up chimney. Not around it. Direct connection of liner to Insert top insures this.

Also without a liner, the Insert needs to be removed for cleaning creosote that falls down flue during cleaning. With a liner, debris falls into firebox and is easily removed.

 

[mogli]

If the outlet of Insert simply exhausted up the chimney, it was installed as designed to use the existing flue. A liner would require an adapter called a "Boot" that would be mounted on the Insert and connects to a stainless steel pipe, like a tube that goes all the way up the chimney. This keeps the flue size smaller and insulation can be added around liner to keep it hotter inside. This increases draft and decreases creosote build up. When invented, they were made to easily slide into and use existing hearth and chimney. So there was no boot made to fit the top. They are available made of cast iron, pictured below, thick sheet metal, or stainless.

View attachment 140157 The integral original damper and rod goes under the boot, so the stainless type is easier to notch for damper rod.

If the Insert is slid into hearth without an airtight connection to flue, the heated flue will not only draw air through the fire (through the Insert air intakes) but it will allow air leakage around the Insert. This is the cooler indoor air you don't want leaking up the chimney cooling the flue, reducing draft, and causing creosote build up due to cooler flue temp. So without a boot and liner, the faceplate seal is important, which in your case would not be flat against the hearth, so the faceplate needs to be sealed with spacers to prevent air leakage around the Insert.

Bottom line is; ALL air must go THROUGH Insert and up chimney. Not around it. Direct connection of liner to Insert top insures this.

Also without a liner, the Insert needs to be removed for cleaning creosote that falls down flue during cleaning. With a liner, debris falls into firebox and is easily removed.

When I slid it out a bit it did not seem to have a boot. Also to duct into the existing chimney flue at my place I would have to remove the existing fire place damper. I'll take some pictures tonight of the fireplace tonight and let me know what you think. Also this is going into a home I am renting, so sadly this will only be an install that would last as long as I live there, he has not had trustworthy renters in the past so he does not want the stove after we leave. So I am looking for the easiest, but proper way to install this stove. From my experience in making cinder block evaporators and with wood stoves I do know to make sure that no air goes up the flue that has not gone through the intake vents of the stove/arch. Soot= risk of chimney fires and smokey smell in the house. Also plane on capping the chimney as it is open to the elements at the moment.

 

[mogli]

Also the only riser that came off the top of the stove's damper apperaed to be no more that 2 inches high.

Thanks again.

 

[coaly]

This is the normal damper on top of Insert that exhausted up chimney. Nothing was attached to Insert.


The easiest and proper install in the 80's AND the way they were UL listed and designed was as shown in manual; https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/fishinsertmanual.pdf

Today that is considered a "slammer" being slid in quick and done. It is no longer considered "proper". In your case you certainly wouldn't want to invest into a stainless liner for the temporary use. So all you can do is use it as shown in manual that is far better than the open fireplace you would have.

 

[mogli]

So the short boot on top of the stove I'm looking at was added? So it may be worth adding a partial liner to at least get past the existing fireplace damper

sorry that last reply ended up in another thread, can you move it to this this thread?

 

[coaly]

I'm better at moving Inserts

 

[mogli]

ok no prob I see you already answered it, just trying to not to clutter the forum

 

[mogli]

I take that to mean the 24 inch taper is ACROSS. The top tapering down to 24 is fine since the back of Insert is tapered to match.

Only slide the Insert in until it hits. If connecting to a liner like you should, it doesn't matter. If the faceplate is being used to seal the front of fireplace opening as shown in manual, the space needs to be sealed between faceplate and hearth front.
There cannot be any way for inside air to leak up chimney. So the faceplate seal then becomes important.

Yes, I did mean across.

 

[mogli]

Also I noticed when looking at the stove I could see back to the small flue riser through a gap here. In this case I would want at least a partial liner, correct?

 

[mogli]

I'll see if he can send a better picture or ask my room mate to drop by on his way home to get a better picture

 

[coaly]

The air slot across the top is above the firebox. The firebox is then encased with a second outer shell. (the outer shell is only the back half of Insert) So what you are looking at through the air slot is the flue outlet that is welded to the firebox and outer case. You can see the short piece of it between the firebox top and outer shell - the damper is inside it - It is not a riser that extends out of the Insert top. Page 11 shows a cut away for firebrick installation but doesn't have the flue shown. That area around the flue outlet pipe is the hottest part you want a blower taking the heat from for the highest efficiency.
The top of the Insert will look like the picture in post 12.

Here's a picture that shows the pipe you are looking at between firebox and outer shell without damper installed.

 

[mogli]

Ahhh, thank you for the insight.

 

[mogli]

now we have all the parts to do the install, insert boot, partial section of liner, cap, and high heat insulation and caulk. the opening of the fire place is only 25" tall and then goes up to over 30" once in past the first brick. How do you install the stove with the insert boot on it? With the boot installed its taller than the opening

 

[coaly]

If the Insert is 22 high, it leaves enough room for a 3 inch boot. Which boot do you have?
Are you bolting or screwing it to the Insert top? You would drill and tap the outer jacket on top and notch boot to fit rod as necessary. Once test fitted with gasket in place, cement gasket to boot if that is what you are using to seal it. (If painting Insert, now is when you would burn it off outside to cure paint and cement). Remove boot with hardened cement holding gasket in place. Make sure liner fits boot easily since the final connection will be basically done blind, reaching back in. Then slide Insert past the low brick and install the boot. Bolts or screws are installed by feel. Slide farther back and connect liner. Slide fully into place. I'm not a big guy, so I use leverage and rollers. (iron pipe)