Flue liner replacement?

[kettensäge]

Over the past few days I have noticed a drop in amount of draft as compared to normal. In this type of weather (mid teens and colder) the draft is normally pretty strong, to the point where I have to reload pretty quickly or else!
Something has changed. I also noticed air being pulled around the outside of the insert into the original fireplace hearth. Not a lot, but the flame from a lit match will definately seek the opening. I am suspecting that there is a problem with the liner. The insert is still operating satisfactorily but I do plan to check it as soon as possible. While doing the stone veneer I never did figure out how to disconnect the liner from the insert. I was able to pull it far enough forward to get the work done and slide it back with the pipe connected. Never could find screws or anything like that while looking from the inside. I researched today and found there is an adapter. How does the adapter attach to the insert? How do you remove it to allow liner replacement?
The liner was installed in 92 or so by the original owner, I moved there in 2000. I'm guessng it is 8" dia. about 12 to 15' long. Liner going on 20yrs old.
I never get any creosote buildup, except a small amount where the liner is cemented in at the very top of the chimney.


Are these stainless steel? Best place to buy?

On the bright side I'm burning even less wood for the same amount of heat, just harder to get it lit up when down to coals, need to leave the door cracked.

Thanks

 

[Eaglecraft]

Over the past few days I have noticed a drop in amount of draft as compared to normal. In this type of weather (mid teens and colder) the draft is normally pretty strong, to the point where I have to reload pretty quickly or else!
Something has changed. I also noticed air being pulled around the outside of the insert into the original fireplace hearth. Not a lot, but the flame from a lit match will definately seek the opening. I am suspecting that there is a problem with the liner. The insert is still operating satisfactorily but I do plan to check it as soon as possible. While doing the stone veneer I never did figure out how to disconnect the liner from the insert. I was able to pull it far enough forward to get the work done and slide it back with the pipe connected. Never could find screws or anything like that while looking from the inside. I researched today and found there is an adapter. How does the adapter attach to the insert? How do you remove it to allow liner replacement?
The liner was installed in 92 or so by the original owner, I moved there in 2000. I'm guessng it is 8" dia. about 12 to 15' long. Liner going on 20yrs old.
I never get any creosote buildup, except a small amount where the liner is cemented in at the very top of the chimney.


Are these stainless steel? Best place to buy?

On the bright side I'm burning even less wood for the same amount of heat, just harder to get it lit up when down to coals, need to leave the door cracked.

Thanks

Kettensage:

Air may be drafting up the chimney cavity. There may be some air leakage at the top plate, or where the rain cap/top plate joins the liner. Or there could be a crack/leak in the terra cotta chimney flue liner allowing air to escape. Sounds like the 8 inch diameter pipe is not insulated, or maybe there is no bottom stop plate to prevent air and heat loss up through and into the chimney cavity.

A SS liner can be connected to a stove flue without an appliance adapter. The liner may have sheet metal screws holding it to the insert flue. There may be stove cement covering the sheet metal screws. Otherwise the liner may be just jammed into the tapered fit of the stove flue.

The smaller, tapered end of the appliance adapter is placed inside the stove flue. It should be held in place with SS sheet metal screws. It's a good idea, I think, to seal that joint with Rutland Stove Cement. The SS liner is then placed inside the other end of the appliance adapter. Typically the appliance adapter will have three small arms, or loops which hold a SS Clamp in place. The liner is slipped inside the adapter and the SS clamp is tightened up. To remove the liner, the installation process is reversed.

All the equipment - appliance adapter, screws, clamps, liner, top plate and rain cap should be SS. The liner, in particular, should be UL listed. Try the following URL: http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com

 

[oconnor]

What type of stove / insert do you have? Some stoves have the liner being screwed in from inside the stove - you pull the liner into the stove (baffle plate removed) and attach from inside.

If you are noticing a decrease in performance, I recommend you check your flue for buildup - start at the chimney cap, then check inside the liner. Remove your baffle and make sure all is still attached since you moved the insert and set it back in place as well.

Let us know what your insert is. Pictures can help too.

 

[kettensäge]

Thanks Volmiester,
The fire was out yesterday when I got home form work so I got a chance to check things out. There is an adapter on the top and the liner comes in at about 30° angle from the back. From what I could see the liner is still in great shape. There must be screws there somewhere holding the adaptor or liner.
The void between the liner and the original flue is filled with cement. I usually get a small donut of creosote here, probably because the liner can't get hot enough to self clean. I don't know if the liner is insulated, It does stay clean. It was installed when the house was built or shortly afterwards.

Next step is to get to the top of the chimney and see if there is a problem there. I would like to seal the air leak, will have to find it first.

Thanks for the explanation about the adapter.

Checked out the website, lots of good info. They are about an hour away.

 

[oconnor]

Thanks Volmiester,
The fire was out yesterday when I got home form work so I got a chance to check things out. There is an adapter on the top and the liner comes in at about 30° angle from the back. From what I could see the liner is still in great shape. There must be screws there somewhere holding the adaptor or liner.
The void between the liner and the original flue is filled with cement. I usually get a small donut of creosote here, probably because the liner can't get hot enough to self clean. I don't know if the liner is insulated, It does stay clean. It was installed when the house was built or shortly afterwards.

Next step is to get to the top of the chimney and see if there is a problem there. I would like to seal the air leak, will have to find it first.

Thanks for the explanation about the adapter.

Checked out the website, lots of good info. They are about an hour away.

Do you know if your liner is full length?

The description you give above (bold) worries me. It sounds like you are describing creosote on the outside of the liner, but perhaps you mean it is on the inside of the pipe.

 

[kettensäge]

Liner goes from top of insert to very top of chimney. (Does this mean full length?) Is cemented in just at the very top, down about 3 or 4 inches. Liner is always perfectly clean, never had to clean it. Build up is inside the liner at the very top, just where it is cemented. I guess it never gets hot enough to self clean at that point. Most years I don't even remove this buildup as it never seems to get very big. I have to get up there and check it out as you suggest.

In my case the baffle is a 1/2" thick steel plate that can be slid in and out, built directly into the insert. Loosely blocks the flue when closed. No way for it to be dislocated.

Some pic's are here:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/68882/

There is no surround, just one big insert, details in my sig. No cat, non EPA.

Hutch Mfg (Louden Tenn.) no longer makes these, I can remember researching them and finding they were a "too close for comfort" copy of a european based manufacturers' product and were forced to discontinue production.

 

[BrotherBart]

You can get a chimney sweep to run a video camera down a liner just like they do to inspect a masonry chimney. Might cost ya a hundred and fifty bucks but that is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a liner when nothing might be wrong with it.

 

[kettensäge]

You can get a chimney sweep to run a video camera down a liner just like they do to inspect a masonry chimney. Might cost ya a hundred and fifty bucks but that is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a liner when nothing might be wrong with it.

Never knew thay did that, thanks.
What is the average lifespan of a liner under normal conditions?

 

[98dingo]

You can get a chimney sweep to run a video camera down a liner just like they do to inspect a masonry chimney. Might cost ya a hundred and fifty bucks but that is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a liner when nothing might be wrong with it.

Never knew thay did that, thanks.
What is the average lifespan of a liner under normal conditions?

Most of them are lifetime warrantied.

 

[kettensäge]

Unfortunately it was installed in '91 or so. I Have no idea who the original installer or manufacturer was.

Can these things be damaged by the heat a woodfire generates?, not a chiney fire but hot undamped woodfire?

 

[98dingo]

Unfortunately it was installed in '91 or so. I Have no idea who the original installer or manufacturer was.

Can these things be damaged by the heat a woodfire generates?, not a chiney fire but hot undamped woodfire?

They can withstand numerous fires of 2100 degrees. That is how they are tested anyways. The only way to truely know would be to have a sweep come give it an inspection.