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Justasinger

New Member
Dec 2, 2015
6
Maine
Really sorry for the novel, but lack of working knowledge and serious frustration on my part causing the blabber fingers...

so im guessing that I am having operator headspace and timing issues with my new to me (used) englander 28-3500. Last year was my first year ever heating with wood, and I was heating with a very old (early 1980's) Kerr 140,000 btu wood furnace. It heated my old, very drafty split level 2500 sq foot house to a comfy 72, even with the outdoor daytime temps -20f, though the 1 cord of wood eaten every 2 weeks got to be tiresome. This winter, I came across a deal for a 2005 englander 28-3500 for $400, and it came with a new blower assembly, so I grabbed it thinking I could heat the house with about half the wood consumption this winter. So far we haven't had much by way of cold weather, so I've only got to play with the furnace a few times, but I can't seem to get the plenum to hold temps above about 140, in fact, my flue will only hold appx. 200f, which I think is way low. My furnace is connected to the chimney with a 45 coming off of the furnace, 30" of straight pipe (with manual damper @ 15"), and another 45 connected to the chimney (all 6", single lined). The chimney itself is 8" square clay encased in chimney blocks. Total height on the chimney is 26' (6' above the ridge of the house).

Not knowing much about wood, I assumed a stove is a stove, light a fire, get it roaring, stuff as much wood as possible in the firebox, close the damper until smoke comes back into the house, then open it a hair and call it a night. After reading on this site for a couple weeks, I have learned that is very untrue.

I have read everything here that I could find on this furnace, and the general consensus was that running the upper air control between 1/4 to 1/3 open, and the lower air control 1-2 cogs open (1/5th to 2/5ths of a turn) would yield 3-4 hrs of great heat, and another 2 hours of moderate heat, so I tried those settings (I could not find anything on the damper control other than englander doesn't want you to have one, but having one will help you retain heat in your furnace longer). At these settings I could only get the fan to stay on for 5 minutes at a time (though it would only turn off for about 2 minutes at a time).

So back to the site I come, doing more reading not on this stove but on wood burning in general, and found I was not only lighting the fire wrong, but I wasn't bringing my chimney up to temp before setting the stove on "cruise control". So I get the fire started, and keeping the ash door wide open, and the upper air control closed, begin adding fuel,... 2-3 sticks every 10 minutes, until my fire box was full and the flue reached 500f.

Also, since I could not find anything concerning specific damper settings, I left the flue damper wide open for this test run. The stack switch reached a temperature of 175, which I'm guessing is still a bit low, but honestly don't really know. The front of my furnace reached 270 on my magnetic thermostat, sitting centered on the upper air control bar. So I close the ash door, and set the upper air control to 1/3 open, and the lower screw to 2 cogs open. At 6 minutes, my chimney temp (showing on the magnetic thermometer mounted at the damper) is down to 260, the front of the stove is 220, and the stack switch is reading 125. So I try again, this time using the damper to attempt getting the front of the stove warmer before going to "cruise control", because I've read on here people attaining 550f. 8 minutes after opening the ash door, flue is up to 450, and the front of the stove is up to 425 (damper @ 45 degrees). I let it cook that way another 30 minutes adding 2 sticks at a time as space becomes available, but the temps do not go any higher, so I again shut the ash door and go to the "cruise control" settings, with the same results. Thinking that my cherry and white birch may not be dry enough (I don't have a moisture gauge tool yet, but that will be the next item I buy, along with a manometer, as soon as money becomes available), I grabbed a couple arm loads of ash from a buddy, with almost the same result (though his ash took longer to ignite when tossing it on the hot coals). So I've almost ruled out wood as a problem in my head, but just to be sure, I bought those wood fuel blocks from tractor supply and tried once more, with the same result.

So perhaps I'm wrong, but the guy I got this englander off of is the same guy I got the Kerr off of, and he said the englander heats better than the Kerr, more efficient and more total heat. I'm just not really sure what to try at this point. If money wasn't an issue, I would have just ordered a new kuuma, have it installed and be done with it, but as I am planning on breaking ground in the spring on a foundation for a new house, and will be paying as I go, I need to save my pennies for the concrete bill.

I guess my question is what am I doing wrong?
 
I'm thinking draft on the chimney may not be enough.
 
I'm thinking draft on the chimney may not be enough.
I have considered that, and am planning on buying a manometer (and a moisture tester) in the next two weeks, I just started a new job so am waiting til I get my first check. Again, I really know next to nothing about wood heat, but my new wood when I throw it in ignites and throws flames within 45 seconds, even when just down to coals. When I have the ash door open, the flames reach to the top of the furnace and if the damper is wide open they will actually turn sideways and run 10 inches or so straight to the exhaust hole, so I'm guessing if it's a draft problem then I have too much? But I thought that a damper was to lower the draft so in theory, if I find the happy spot on the damper, it should work properly, right? Is there any old school method of checking draft? You know, kind of like the clink and clunk method of checking wood for seasoning?
 
If you spin out your lower control and you get the fire like you say, then I would think your draft is ok. Just let more air in till you get the heat you want.
 
I'm saying your chimney needs a liner, preferably insulated. 8" square chimney is 64" area, your furnace wants a 6" chimney (~27" area) Your "too large" masonry chimney is cooling off too much to maintain a good draft once you turn down the air to extend the burn, the chimney cools...draft drops...fire intensity dies down...chimney cools more...so on and so forth, does a great job of making creosote though! Your old furnace wasted so much heat up the chimney that it wasn't a problem then.
A manometer will confirm my suspicions for you. Check my ad in the for sale section for a good deal on a manometer :cool:
 
If you spin out your lower control and you get the fire like you say, then I would think your draft is ok. Just let more air in till you get the heat you want.
Spinning out the lower control doesn't give me the awesome burn, opening the ash door wide is what does it.
 
I'm saying your chimney needs a liner, preferably insulated. 8" square chimney is 64" area, your furnace wants a 6" chimney (~27" area) Your "too large" masonry chimney is cooling off too much to maintain a good draft once you turn down the air to extend the burn, the chimney cools...draft drops...fire intensity dies down...chimney cools more...so on and so forth, does a great job of making creosote though! Your old furnace wasted so much heat up the chimney that it wasn't a problem then.
A manometer will confirm my suspicions for you. Check my ad in the for sale section for a good deal on a manometer :cool:
I actually did already check out your add earlier today, and that's the manometer I'm planning on getting, if you still have one once I get paid. So if the manometer does confirm what you suspect, can I just reduce the end of the chimney to the 6" round? I really don't want to spend any more money on this house than I absolutely have to, unless what I'm buying I can reuse in the new house. It is going to take me two years to have the house move in ready (though I'm sure it won't be "complete") so I need to stay here for this winter and next winter. What size chimney does the kuuma vf 100 need?
 
Then I suggest you do what tom recommends. Although I may beat you to the deal he is selling.
 
I'm saying your chimney needs a liner, preferably insulated. 8" square chimney is 64" area, your furnace wants a 6" chimney (~27" area) Your "too large" masonry chimney is cooling off too much to maintain a good draft once you turn down the air to extend the burn, the chimney cools...draft drops...fire intensity dies down...chimney cools more...so on and so forth, does a great job of making creosote though! Your old furnace wasted so much heat up the chimney that it wasn't a problem then.
A manometer will confirm my suspicions for you. Check my ad in the for sale section for a good deal on a manometer :cool:

Hey Tom, apparently I have insufficient privileges to respond to your for sale item. Which is total horse crap, I really should bich to someone. Anyhow I offer $30.00 for the whole shebang, what say you?
 
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You respond in a private conversation. It isn't anybody else's business what you and him agree to. Or don't agree to.
 
Thx for the info, say does the kuuma really burn 10-12 hrs like the company boasts?

If you load it up , yes.. Then there is what one considers burn time. I consider it fan on, which I have had 12 hrs. I generally don't load for that. I am a 3 load a day guy. If you load to much you can really over heat the house. Everything really is outside temp to temp loss of the individual house.
 
Spinning out the lower control doesn't give me the awesome burn, opening the ash door wide is what does it.
Sounds like a low draft situation to me
Hey Tom, apparently I have insufficient privileges to respond to your for sale item. Which is total horse crap, I really should bich to someone. Anyhow I offer $30.00 for the whole shebang, what say you?
I'll PM ya
 
So if the manometer does confirm what you suspect, can I just reduce the end of the chimney to the 6" round?
No, the whole chimney needs to be reduced in size to maintain a good speed on the flue gasses, that and you will have a smaller flue (and much less mass) to keep warm when you cut the damper back. That is how you can keep the draft from "stalling" out on you. You'd be amazed how much different it will run with a liner dropped in the chimney
 
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