Been doing some work on my house this year. Windows and finishing my basement. House should be a little tighter this year, but also got me to thinking if I need some fresh air into my utility/furnace room where my Vapor Fire is. Trying to figure out the basics here on a simple system. Did some searching here and still not sure what will work here. Saw somewhere to bring a 4" vent through the wall up high in basement, run down wall to 6" off the floor an put a 6" diameter pipe back up that that will create a cold trap. Also saw where it looks like I can take the pipe down the wall and turn it back up the wall and cold air will stay at the bottom. Any suggestions/input welcome here. Trying to minimize cold air coming it, though with the furnace in there it will stay warm. Located in Southern Maryland for reference.
Fresh Air Ideas - Kuuma Vapor Fire
- Thread starter burtman4
- Start date
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brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
I remember a snow storm that hit October 3 one year.... so, this weekend, reworked the black pipe on my Vapor Fire so it will be ready to rock at the first sign of cold....
I was thinking.... wouldn't it be cool if this thing was designed to use outside air to feed the fire box ? Just like my high efficiency gas furnace uses ?
Anyways, My Vapor fire is close enough to the laundry room that I leave the dryer door open and I get air to come in thru the dryer vent... it works, you can see the dryer vent pipe frost up on really cold days... It's important to keep the lint trap clean for best results.
I was thinking.... wouldn't it be cool if this thing was designed to use outside air to feed the fire box ? Just like my high efficiency gas furnace uses ?
Anyways, My Vapor fire is close enough to the laundry room that I leave the dryer door open and I get air to come in thru the dryer vent... it works, you can see the dryer vent pipe frost up on really cold days... It's important to keep the lint trap clean for best results.
Is there a minimum or maximum I need to consider when i run the pipe back up the wall? My thoughts were to run up about 7' on my 9' basement wall due to where I want to put it.
I also saw in my research where a 5 gallon bucket is used for a trap, which doesn't go up that far so wasn't sure if there was a reason to keep it lower.
The dryer is what got me thinking about this. My dryer is on the other side of my utility room where my furnace is. Thought I may get a little intake through the dryer when not in use, but was worried the opposite is occurring when I use the dryer.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Yeah I dunno...my thinking would be that the higher you come up with the trap the less likely you'd have air coming in that isn't just "makeup air" for the furnace/baro. (the baro being the larger air "user" of the 2...I personally just have my OAK hooked up direct to my baro)
Hopefully your upper level(s) are air sealed pretty well, because any holes opened up in the basement just allows an even bigger leak out the top (Florida Bungalow syndrome)
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Correct ways to ventilate a home is something I have spent way too much time learning about. My post needed up way too long. Take what you want from it. I left it all below. I don’t like the idea of an uncontrolled unfiltered air intake. I think there are better ways. I’d rather see an ERV, or ventilating dehumidifier. Both are $$$$. At least put a manual damper or automatic damper actuator triggered by something. And definitely cut a pass through vent from the rest of the basement into the utility room.
The much to long post……
All the air sucked out of the house needs to be replaced by outside air. It’s already doing that. In the winter it’s cold in the summer it’s hot and humid. Tight houses need fresh air to purge indoor pollutants, think CO2 and and makeup air for any ventilation. Usually more in the summer as the stack effect is reduced
The only way to know if you need make up air into the the utility room is to know how tight that room is and how tight the house is via a blower door test or trial and error.
Is there and air return in the utility room? If so it’s at least 10 feet from the VF? The basement has an air return?
Personally I doubt the house is tight enough to have negative effects on draft. It might run a bit cooler this year (I noticed that after tightening up my house the stove no longer will cruise with the air fully closed. I have to keep it open just a bit. The dryer running could have effects. I would definitely put in pass through vents.
If I had to supply makeup air to a house I would be using an adjustable energy recovery ventilator that exhausts from bathrooms and supplies fresh air to kitchen and laundry room if possible. I would set it to supply more intake air than exhaust. Think 50-100 cfm. 50 for a smaller house with 2 or three people. 100 for a normal house and 4-5 people ( ever 150 pounds of pets count as one per here). More for large homes or more people. Yes we have to heat/cool this air but it’s code (ASHRAE (formerly called the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers) recommends (in its Standard 62.2-2016).
I don’t like the idea of an open 4” pipe anywhere. When the winds really starts to blow that will be sucking in way more air than the furnace needs. I want to control it and filter it. It would have an actuated damper that I could connect to the the
If I thought the furnace room was too tight itself I would add a pass through vent to the rest of the basement. If that proved insufficient I would set up look into adding an adjustable ERV to the house and or basement.
My last point on ventilation. Get an indoor air quality meter and measure your CO2 (and CO). This gives you a decent gauge of how tight your home is. Ideally CO2 should always be under 800ppm. I can’t get mine below 550 and regularly see 900+ but don’t go over 1000. I need more fresh air. Winter is better because the stove is running when it’s cold and the increased stack effect sucks more cold fresh air in. It will tell you what you need to know .
The much to long post……
All the air sucked out of the house needs to be replaced by outside air. It’s already doing that. In the winter it’s cold in the summer it’s hot and humid. Tight houses need fresh air to purge indoor pollutants, think CO2 and and makeup air for any ventilation. Usually more in the summer as the stack effect is reduced
The only way to know if you need make up air into the the utility room is to know how tight that room is and how tight the house is via a blower door test or trial and error.
Is there and air return in the utility room? If so it’s at least 10 feet from the VF? The basement has an air return?
Personally I doubt the house is tight enough to have negative effects on draft. It might run a bit cooler this year (I noticed that after tightening up my house the stove no longer will cruise with the air fully closed. I have to keep it open just a bit. The dryer running could have effects. I would definitely put in pass through vents.
If I had to supply makeup air to a house I would be using an adjustable energy recovery ventilator that exhausts from bathrooms and supplies fresh air to kitchen and laundry room if possible. I would set it to supply more intake air than exhaust. Think 50-100 cfm. 50 for a smaller house with 2 or three people. 100 for a normal house and 4-5 people ( ever 150 pounds of pets count as one per here). More for large homes or more people. Yes we have to heat/cool this air but it’s code (ASHRAE (formerly called the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers) recommends (in its Standard 62.2-2016).
I don’t like the idea of an open 4” pipe anywhere. When the winds really starts to blow that will be sucking in way more air than the furnace needs. I want to control it and filter it. It would have an actuated damper that I could connect to the the
If I thought the furnace room was too tight itself I would add a pass through vent to the rest of the basement. If that proved insufficient I would set up look into adding an adjustable ERV to the house and or basement.
My last point on ventilation. Get an indoor air quality meter and measure your CO2 (and CO). This gives you a decent gauge of how tight your home is. Ideally CO2 should always be under 800ppm. I can’t get mine below 550 and regularly see 900+ but don’t go over 1000. I need more fresh air. Winter is better because the stove is running when it’s cold and the increased stack effect sucks more cold fresh air in. It will tell you what you need to know .
Thanks EbS-P for the input. Much appreciated. I agree and I am struggling with the idea of an uncontrolled air intake, thus why I was asking. I have seen ERV's when I started looking, but still researching here. I do like the idea of something simple though vs. an ERV.
trx250r87
Burning Hunk
An ERV or HRV is a perfect solution, but not cheap! I installed a Panasonic Intelli-balance ERV years ago. This works great to provide fresh air plus it can provide positive pressure in the house by supplying more air than it exhausts. I can select both intak and exhaust at 50-100cfm in 10cfm increments. It also has a timer where you can set 10-60 minutes per hour on time.
Eric
Eric
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