Froling S3 Turbo versus Econoburn

[salecker]

Having a Froling s3 turbo installed with solar integration. Going to be a big step forward in getting my heating costs under control. The guys brought the two storage tanks today and piping will be under way tomorrow. After a lot of research I have found that the two most important things in setting up a proper system for your needs are: #1- Getting an experienced, knowledgable installer with a track record, a good reputation, and a love for what he does. #2- Getting an experienced, knowledgable installer with a track record, a good reputation, and a love for what he does. If you can do that, you will save months of research and time that could have been spent doing more productive things, and you will have the right system that fits you and your home. Period. I’ll put some posts up as things progress.

I would love to see the solar part.That is my next project i want to add solar collection to my system.

 

[Adirondacker26]

I would love to see the solar part.That is my next project i want to add solar collection to my system.

They will start next week and I’ll get some pictures.

 

[TCaldwell]

What company is doing the install?

 

[Adirondacker26]

The radiant store out of the capital district is doing the install. Ben has got the 1000 liter tanks positioned, insulated, and has begun the piping.
I have been doing the jack hammering for the incoming solar lines and access to the chimney. I have to go through 22” of masonry to get to the chimney and then a 6” ID (ceramic?) pipe goes in. My problem is how do I seal that pipe in the wall and chimney when the pipe itself is in the way? I have to do something to stop air from getting in the flue around the outside of the pipe.

What company is doing the install?

 

[maple1]

No isolation valves? I put them almost everywhere, starting at all the tank ports.

Interesting looking tanks. Are those a Froling product? Or? Looks like they give up a bit of volume above the top ports - but maybe there is internal piping too (dips or risers). Looks like they fit the space pretty good though.

 

[salecker]

Hopefully they will store equal heat in each tank they way they are plumbed.
My system was designed where tank #1 is teed from 11/2 line,then tank 2 is fed from a 11/4 line from the tee and the return goes to tank 2 with 11/2 with a t and 11/4 to tank 1
This configuration makes sure that the charging and depletion of the tanks is almost exactly equal.Last year i added temp gauges after 71/2 years of running,and by George it works.

 

[maple1]

Reverse return is a pretty simple way to bring balance also, piping can stay same size.

 

[Adirondacker26]

No isolation valves? I put them almost everywhere, starting at all the tank ports.

Interesting looking tanks. Are those a Froling product? Or? Looks like they give up a bit of volume above the top ports - but maybe there is internal piping too (dips or risers). Looks like they fit the space pretty good though.

The tanks have 2 coils each, baffles, and internal piping. They are StorMaxx-CTEK tanks from SunMaxx solar hot water solutions. Made in Germany. 13 ports per tank.

 

[Chris Hoskin]

The radiant store out of the capital district is doing the install. Ben has got the 1000 liter tanks positioned, insulated, and has begun the piping.
I have been doing the jack hammering for the incoming solar lines and access to the chimney. I have to go through 22” of masonry to get to the chimney and then a 6” ID (ceramic?) pipe goes in. My problem is how do I seal that pipe in the wall and chimney when the pipe itself is in the way? I have to do something to stop air from getting in the flue around the outside of the pipe.

View attachment 228665

Glad to hear you've connected with The Radiant Store. You are in good hands with Terry and his crew. Looking forward to seeing more pictures as the project comes together.

 

[Adirondacker26]

Glad to hear you've connected with The Radiant Store. You are in good hands with Terry and his crew. Looking forward to seeing more pictures as the project comes together.

Yes, I am fortunate to have Terry and Co putting this together for me. They came highly recommended and now that the job is started, I know why.
The solar panels and piping were dropped off today so we are getting closer. The Froling S3, coupled with the solar hot water and storage is going to make my life here on the farm much easier. I plan to take full advantage of this state of the art technology.

 

[Adirondacker26]

Ken and Fin installed the solar panels yesterday.

 

[Chris Hoskin]

Ken and Fin installed the solar panels yesterday. View attachment 228834

looking good! Reminds me of a solar design class I took back in the day - it was pointed out that when PV panels get hot their output goes down. One of the students asked, naturally, "why not put them in the shade then?".

 

[Adirondacker26]

looking good! Reminds me of a solar design class I took back in the day - it was pointed out that when PV panels get hot their output goes down. One of the students asked, naturally, "why not put them in the shade then?".

Makes sense to me! You probably have forgotten more than I’ll ever know about this but for those who are interested in solar energy, these panels don’t produce electricity, but hot water instead. They are commercial grade and with this configuration, a 20 degree gain is realized, ( on average) no matter what the input temperature is of the circulating glycol. More panels means more gain. The latest technology in design of the panels themselves along with computer controlled components integrated into the solar system coupled with the computer controlled variable speed boiler pump allows this hybrid system to realize a heat gain where only a few years ago, this was not possible in this part of the country. Parameters are established during initial start up by input to the computer by the installer and allows the system to heat the stratified 1000 liter buffer tanks in the most efficient way. Depending on conditions and load, the system will be able to heat either the tops of the tanks or the bottoms. They have thought of everything. Work on the solar end continues this week and we expect the froling s3 turbo boiler by week’s end coming from Tarm in New Hampshire.

 

[maple1]

All very interesting, I will be watching this one to wherever it ends up at.

Do you know the brand or manufacturer of the panels? There is a place here that has been making them for decades, I think they are at the top of the solar thermal game. (But maybe not alone up there).

EDIT: I have wondered before why I haven't seen or heard of liquid cooled PV panels - should be a 'best of two worlds' solution?

 

[Adirondacker26]

Work is nearly done now. Ben has a few things to finish up. After a couple test burns I can tell that this system is going to save me a lot of time and money. I have never seen a machine extract so much heat energy from firewood and keep it inside the house where it can be used. The sun was out today for a bit and the solar panels were returning glycol to the tank’s coils at 155 degrees. Glycol going to the panels was at 130 degrees due to the tanks being warmed up.

 

[Adirondacker26]

SO the system is in and working great! Never saw so much heat energy from so little input. The solar puts out 165 degree glycol on sunny days- seriously hot stuff. Best thing about the froling is that its so easy to light and then you just walk away. No adjustments, no tweaking, no checking things, no stirring of the fire, no taking panels off and guessing what the air settings should be, and no adding wood during the burn because the boiler display tells you how much wood to put in when you start it. No hoping that you have things set right because the computer takes all the guess work out of the equation. Everything about the froling s3 turbo has been engineered to extract the most energy from wood and keep the operator OUT of the boiler room. Combustion settings for primary and secondary air are constantly monitored and adjusted from start to finish- they are constantly changing throughout the burn. Fact is- there is no way to get maximum efficiency from a wood gasification boiler which does not change the air settings and fan speed during the burn. Period. You can change them yourself but who wants to live in the basement? The boiler always knows how much energy is needed, depending on load and storage capacity and how to burn the wood for optimal efficiency. Its like having a full time employee in the basement doing all the work for you. Oh and by the way, this thing is so quiet that I can’t hear it if I’m not in the basement. Also I have opened the firebox during the burn and there is NO SMOKE let into the house! NONE! I don’t have a reason to do that other than to just see if I could open it without smoke pouring out. I have seen all the videos on youtube of the wood gas boilers and they are BLACK above the fire door. If anyone knows of a better boiler, I’ll buy it.

 

[TCaldwell]

You have seen the light, o2 control!

 

[Adirondacker26]

A short video of combustion chamber.

 

[goosegunner]

I couldn't agree with you more, we are amazed with how our S3 functions compared to our other boiler (which happened to be the other boiler you were considering).

SO the system is in and working great! Never saw so much heat energy from so little input. The solar puts out 165 degree glycol on sunny days- seriously hot stuff. Best thing about the froling is that its so easy to light and then you just walk away. No adjustments, no tweaking, no checking things, no stirring of the fire, no taking panels off and guessing what the air settings should be, and no adding wood during the burn because the boiler display tells you how much wood to put in when you start it. No hoping that you have things set right because the computer takes all the guess work out of the equation. Everything about the froling s3 turbo has been engineered to extract the most energy from wood and keep the operator OUT of the boiler room. Combustion settings for primary and secondary air are constantly monitored and adjusted from start to finish- they are constantly changing throughout the burn. Fact is- there is no way to get maximum efficiency from a wood gasification boiler which does not change the air settings and fan speed during the burn. Period. You can change them yourself but who wants to live in the basement? The boiler always knows how much energy is needed, depending on load and storage capacity and how to burn the wood for optimal efficiency. Its like having a full time employee in the basement doing all the work for you. Oh and by the way, this thing is so quiet that I can’t hear it if I’m not in the basement. Also I have opened the firebox during the burn and there is NO SMOKE let into the house! NONE! I don’t have a reason to do that other than to just see if I could open it without smoke pouring out. I have seen all the videos on youtube of the wood gas boilers and they are BLACK above the fire door. If anyone knows of a better boiler, I’ll buy it.

 

[Adirondacker26]

The S3 is keeping things cozy here and saving me a lot of work as well. The one thing I am having trouble with is getting an answer to
a question about fly ash coming from the back of the boiler. The ash is coming from the hole in the mounting plate for the fan where the drive shaft passes through into the flue area where the squirrel cage is located. This is supposed to an area of low pressure but there is definitely ash
coming out. In the picture it’s pretty obvious what’s going on. Anyone having this problem? Any signs of ash on the back of your Froling?

 

[sardo_67]

i found this for you, might be of interest

https://buffalo.craigslist.org/app/d/frling-fhglwood-boiler-new-on/6696662678.html

 

[Adirondacker26]

Hey thats a good price. Problem solved here. Nothing wrong with the boiler. There were a couple very small leaks in the flue pipe causing fly ash to escape. This ash was being drawn into the small cooling fan on the fan motor and pushed against the back of the boiler making it appear that
the ash was coming from the drive shaft area. We are well into the heating season here in the Adirondacks and today I noticed how much time the Froling is saving me on a daily basis. So easy to light, no repeated trips to add more wood, and most of the time there is no fire in it to check anyway. Not that it needs checking. It’s starting to look like I am saving around 75% on my wood consumption over the old crappy boiler. Amazing!

 

[sardo_67]

Hey thats a good price. Problem solved here. Nothing wrong with the boiler. There were a couple very small leaks in the flue pipe causing fly ash to escape. This ash was being drawn into the small cooling fan on the fan motor and pushed against the back of the boiler making it appear that
the ash was coming from the drive shaft area. We are well into the heating season here in the Adirondacks and today I noticed how much time the Froling is saving me on a daily basis. So easy to light, no repeated trips to add more wood, and most of the time there is no fire in it to check anyway. Not that it needs checking. It’s starting to look like I am saving around 75% on my wood consumption over the old crappy boiler. Amazing!

which boiler did you have?

 

[Adirondacker26]

It’s the S3 turbo

 

[sardo_67]

sorry i meant to say "used to have", your old boiler that was about 75% less efficient than the S3