frustrated beyond belief...my combustion motor

[excursion]

Hey guys
well I'm at my wits end with my jamestown j1000 insert...I used up the life of my oem combustion motor....it was a c-frame .....so here's where the madness starts...

I ordered a new c-frame motor and mounted it directly to my exhaust housing using a 1/4 spacer and the fiberglass heat pad in between...after 3 days .....thermal overload, ok maybe a bad motor.
I called the company I purchased it from and they graciously sent me a new one at no cost...
after installing the new one it lasted 4 days....ugggghhhhhh

So I decided to go with another company...they hooked me up with a new style motor with that cage at the end with the fan in it....thinking I have nothing to worry about , I just installed it and am ruNning on my 3 setting..hardly anything...it goes to 8...
so here's the jist...I can't even keep my hand on that motor it's so hot...
the heat travels right through the shaft into that block of solid metal...I just know it's going to fail again...

How hot do these motors usually run...I am running a 3" straight stainless pipe right out the back of my chimney....
I am ready to throw this thing to the curb...any thoughts people

 

[Lake Girl]

Were the first and second motors after-market replacements or manufacturer spec'd replacement? How long did the original motor last?

 

[Watcher1]

Hey guys
well I'm at my wits end with my jamestown j1000 insert...I used up the life of my oem combustion motor....it was a c-frame .....so here's where the madness starts...

I ordered a new c-frame motor and mounted it directly to my exhaust housing using a 1/4 spacer and the fiberglass heat pad in between...after 3 days .....thermal overload, ok maybe a bad motor.
I called the company I purchased it from and they graciously sent me a new one at no cost...
after installing the new one it lasted 4 days....ugggghhhhhh

So I decided to go with another company...they hooked me up with a new style motor with that cage at the end with the fan in it....thinking I have nothing to worry about , I just installed it and am ruNning on my 3 setting..hardly anything...it goes to 8...
so here's the jist...I can't even keep my hand on that motor it's so hot...
the heat travels right through the shaft into that block of solid metal...I just know it's going to fail again...

How hot do these motors usually run...I am running a 3" straight stainless pipe right out the back of my chimney....
I am ready to throw this thing to the curb...any thoughts people

Same set-up on my Magnum's. "fan on the motor" they run pretty hot.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Nothing to really go south except the induction windings and the inboard bearing, they all run hot or at least as hot as your exhaust gas is running minus a few degrees. I've never been fond of insert style appliances. Too hard to get to components for replacement. If your inboard bearing is a plain bearing (bronze) try pulling the the unit, removing the fan, then pulling the outboard cap and armature and greasing the inboard with high temperature grease and the outboard cap as well and reassembling the unit. That may buy you some time.

If the inboard is a skate beraing, use a needle greaser to inject some HT grease and do the same with the outboard. My CAB has a fan mounted between the housing and the motor itdelf, to pull off soime of the inherent heat but it still runs hot depending on feed levels.

 

[excursion]

These motors are not failing becomes of bearing issues, they are failing from electrical thermal overload...they get to hot and voltage is gone...

 

[excursion]

Note: the new motor is a factory replacement from a quadrafire.

 

[SidecarFlip]

These motors are not failing becomes of bearing issues, they are failing from electrical thermal overload...they get to hot and voltage is gone...

That makes no sense to me. 'The voltage is gone'?? What you are saying, I think, is the Cframe windings develop an open circuit when they heat up, am I right? Did you use a multimeter to determine that?, or did you place a ferrous object near the frame and not experience any excitation?

If thats what is occuring, it's a component failure, probably a bad solder joint, but I've never seen that occur. My agitator motor drive gets so hot, it discolors the plastic wrap and the plastic end laminations but it has never experienced an electrical open. You need to ascertain the resistance on a cold motor and compare it to a hot one and then a non operable one. I bet it's a bad solder connection and nothing more.I don't believe it's 'gone'. I believe if you place a finger on each terminal of the windings, you feel it's presence.

 

[excursion]

When I say gone I mean 120v to the motor and nothing..zippo..zilch...two motors back to back....on both of them the heat setting was raised from 2 to 3 1/2...meaning the motor failed from getting to hot...that's all I can think of...I have a perfect (small) torch flame, vent pipe is totally clear...
I am bearly running this thing because of fears it will just fail again...and the wife is getting more pissed off every hour...

 

[Lake Girl]

Which Jamestown rep did you contact? Contact the Thunder Bay Head office direct and explain the situation... Keep us posted.

 

[dhall28]

the motors run pretty hot, i hit one the other day with IR gun to see the temp, I dont remember the exact numbers but it was pretty warm, I like to install harman comb. motors, a little wiring connection change needed but higher quality bigger motor than quads and cost almost half the amount too

 

[SidecarFlip]

When I say gone I mean 120v to the motor and nothing..zippo..zilch...two motors back to back....on both of them the heat setting was raised from 2 to 3 1/2...meaning the motor failed from getting to hot...that's all I can think of...I have a perfect (small) torch flame, vent pipe is totally clear...
I am bearly running this thing because of fears it will just fail again...and the wife is getting more pissed off every hour...

If you have chopped line voltage to the drive, then the windings are open or again, you have a bad solder joint where the windings attach to the imput lugs. Heat causes expansion so if a solder joits is bad, it will open on expansion.

Before throwing in the towel (so to speak), try taking a solder gun and liquifying the commections where the winding leads attach to the lugs. That should cure the open circuit. If it was an open inside the windings, it would be open hot or cold.

 

[excursion]

So your essentially saying these motors are meant to get as hot as the exhaust itself and overheating shouldn't be an issue...and if they do fail , it should be deemed as poor workmanship from the factory?

 

[alternativeheat]

Well, hot enough you aren't touching it and holding on with my Harman P61. I don't have an infrared gun but I do know that I can't grab the motor when the stove is running any more than I can grab the flex liner coming out of my adapter . I can tap it quickly with my fingers but I would not hold on to it. Paint isn't burnt off though.

 

[SidecarFlip]

So your essentially saying these motors are meant to get as hot as the exhaust itself and overheating shouldn't be an issue...and if they do fail , it should be deemed as poor workmanship from the factory?

Are you an attorney? You seem to be putting a spin on what I stated that wasn't there ever. Essentially I'm saying that it's a thermal expansion issue in an electrical part, I never said anything about operating enviroment other than it's impacting the connections.

Every drive thats close coupled on the exhaust side or close coupled on the agitator runs hot. Fact of life, fact of design.......

 

[excursion]

No , I'm not an attorney!
Just trying to figure out why 2 brand new motors failed back to back when the heat was turned up...and not looking to replace a third, I understand what your saying about the solders...just odd that two in a row take a chit...wouldn't you say?

 

[SidecarFlip]

Not really. Most likely made on an assembly line so it's very possible a number of the field winding coils were cold soldered. I'm pretty sure the coils are wound in a third world country so that even increases the chances.

If you really want to get industrious, unwind the field coil, note the number of turns and gage and go to Radio Shack and purchase a spool of magnet wire, lacquer coated, and rewind the coil. It's not hard. The could be a kink in the wire inside the wraps, but I doubt it.

In today's ecomomy, parts are sourced from the lowest bidder and maybe assembled here. So the rive is offshore.....

The motor will withstand a high ambient heat, really nothing to fail but the bearings eventually. Ithink you have a bad field coil.

 

[Watcher1]

Not really. Most likely made on an assembly line so it's very possible a number of the field winding coils were cold soldered. I'm pretty sure the coils are wound in a third world country so that even increases the chances.

If you really want to get industrious, unwind the field coil, note the number of turns and gage and go to Radio Shack and purchase a spool of magnet wire, lacquer coated, and rewind the coil. It's not hard. The could be a kink in the wire inside the wraps, but I doubt it.

In today's ecomomy, parts are sourced from the lowest bidder and maybe assembled here. So the rive is offshore.....

The motor will withstand a high ambient heat, really nothing to fail but the bearings eventually. Ithink you have a bad field coil.

Hey side car. I don't know of many people that could unwind a motor and rewind it by hand LOL. I just checked the temp on my countryside " motor like "excursion's, with the fan on it." I can hold onto mine at the butt end, some hotter at the end nearest the combustion exhaust. 1 thing that could be causing a heat build-up would be an exhaust pipe clogging up. Motor working harder to move the hot air out of the unit. JMO.

 

[excursion]

Thanks for replying hatcher1, my 3"diam 3' long pipe is super clear...I can go outside put a light in and see the fan spinning...see, frustrating!

 

[Bob E]

Not really. Most likely made on an assembly line so it's very possible a number of the field winding coils were cold soldered. I'm pretty sure the coils are wound in a third world country so that even increases the chances.
If you really want to get industrious, unwind the field coil, note the number of turns and gage and go to Radio Shack and purchase a spool of magnet wire, lacquer coated, and rewind the coil. It's not hard. The could be a kink in the wire inside the wraps, but I doubt it.
In today's ecomomy, parts are sourced from the lowest bidder and maybe assembled here. So the rive is offshore.....
The motor will withstand a high ambient heat, really nothing to fail but the bearings eventually. Ithink you have a bad field coil.

Screw that. Get your money back and buy a better product.
I would also keep an eye on voltage and amps being supplied to the motor. Too much could fry the windings pretty quick

 

[excursion]

Bob e
when curves are thrown at you , you don't quit the game...you figure out a way to hit them...and you don't get your money back from a 15 year old stove...life lesson # 1 from excursion...your welcome!

 

[Bob E]

I thought we were talking about the fans you just bought...

 

[Fsappo]

I haven't researched yet, But isn't Jamestown still in business? Do they no longer make that fan? Have you talked to them about it? Use a part right from the manufacturer?

 

[Lake Girl]

I haven't researched yet, But isn't Jamestown still in business? Do they no longer make that fan? Have you talked to them about it? Use a part right from the manufacturer?

Doesn't say ... another poster is waiting on a replacement convection but "Jamestown" has to order 50 at a time and he's the only one on the waiting list... customer service??
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/crossflow-fan-squealing-in-jamestown-j-1000.135409/#post-1817721

 

[SidecarFlip]

Hey side car. I don't know of many people that could unwind a motor and rewind it by hand LOL. I just checked the temp on my countryside " motor like "excursion's, with the fan on it." I can hold onto mine at the butt end, some hotter at the end nearest the combustion exhaust. 1 thing that could be causing a heat build-up would be an exhaust pipe clogging up. Motor working harder to move the hot air out of the unit. JMO.

Noting to it actually. I remember building an electric motor from 10 penny nails and magnet wire when I was a scout. Just a matter of unwinding the field coil and rewinding the same number of turns. You wind up with a birds nest of magnet wire from the old one and the new wire comes on a spool so you just rewind it like a sewing machine bobbin.

Typically, a solder joint is good for 600 degrees (f). After that, they become iffy, but the field coil is on the outside away from the combustion heat. 'd be resoldering the lugs myself....

 

[Fsappo]

Doesn't say ... another poster is waiting on a replacement convection but "Jamestown" has to order 50 at a time and he's the only one on the waiting list... customer service??
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/crossflow-fan-squealing-in-jamestown-j-1000.135409/#post-1817721

Criminy. Not much excuse for that. If your cash flow is that tight, should sell out to HHT