Frustrated finding someone to install liner I want

[donmac]

Since June, I have been collecting info and getting bids from 5 local certified sweeps/installers in the Cincinnati area to SS line my existing 35 year old fireplace chimney. It is now lined with round clay tile with a 10 ¼" OD and 8 ¼" ID.

I have been given quotes from 4 of the companies, all recommending different liners. I want the heaviest liner I can get installed and I do not think rigid is an option as there is a slight curve( a few inches) in the chimney (20' from top of existing 8" tile stub above crown) to floor of firebox . I have a new PE Summit insert sitting on a dolly next to the fireplace.

I want to use Olympia's Armor Flex (6" X 20' in 316L) and have a quote to have it shipped to my house ($810 liner only). This quote is not from Olympia. I plan to call to see if they will sell to me. I plan to insulate with ½" wrap and mesh. I know I will need additional material to do the whole job.

All local installers want to use lighter liners (.005 and .006) and some do not want to do a block off plate. Pricing has been from 2-3K .

I'm ready to try it myself and rent a lift as I realize this liner will be heavy but I do not want to get into it and realize I'm in over my head. I have looked at videos and read as much as I can but I am still on the fence as to making the decision to do it myself.

Sorry for long winded background but QUESTIONS:


1. Is that a good price for just liner delivered?

2. Does anyone have good install instructions/info to sell or share? I need guidance from experienced installers.

3.Do I want a terra cotta cap/top plate or do I remove all of the 8" stub of existing clay liner above crown and use a flat top plate? Really do not like the idea of cutting it flush with crown and down the road wishing I had a few inches above crown.

4. Do I support liner with support clamp? If so, can I use a storm collar?

5.What angle stove connection adapter do I use – 30 degree? Center of stove exhaust is 12" from surround face/ lintel front.

6. Vendor who gave quote handles caps from HomeSaver , Olympia and Gelco. Any of these better than rest?

7. I know I have to remove some of the existing cast iron damper and brick at rear of throat/smokeshelf. I would like to keep as much as possible and combine with a modified damper plate to form a block off plate. Any additional guidance?

8. Have I addressed all the additional parts I will need?

 

[bholler]

1. Is that a good price for just liner delivered?

pretty good you could bring the price down some by going with 304 instead as long as it is for wood only.

2. Does anyone have good install instructions/info to sell or share? I need guidance from experienced installers.

There are lots around search this site for some or ask specific questions i will gladly answer them.

3.Do I want a terra cotta cap/top plate or do I remove all of the 8" stub of existing clay liner above crown and use a flat top plate? Really do not like the idea of cutting it flush with crown and down the road wishing I had a few inches above crown.

I usually take them down flush and use a flat plate.

4. Do I support liner with support clamp? If so, can I use a storm collar?

Yes and yes

5.What angle stove connection adapter do I use – 30 degree? Center of stove exhaust is 12" from surround face/ lintel front.

hard to say we usually go with a 15 and a 30 as well as a straight it is really hard to say without looking at it.

6. Vendor who gave quote handles caps from HomeSaver , Olympia and Gelco. Any of these better than rest?

We always use olympia but homesaver is good and i didn't know gelco made liners but if they do i am sure they are fine as well

7. I know I have to remove some of the existing cast iron damper and brick at rear of throat/smokeshelf. I would like to keep as much as possible and combine with a modified damper plate to form a block off plate. Any additional guidance?

Not really just remove what ever you need to to get the liner through

8. Have I addressed all the additional parts I will need?

I think so liner, top plate, clamp, storm collar, cap, insulation kit, appliance adapter and or elbows, Sheet metal for block off plate, Rivets and screws, And caulk to seal the top plate down and around the storm collar.

Also make sure the existing liner smoke chamber and smoke shelf are all cleaned very well.

 

[donmac]

bholler:
Thanks for quick answers. Posted pics I forgot in original post. Any additional thoughts? I will have to remove brick arch and reinstall. #6 was companies listed that sell caps-any comments. Do you think Olympia will sell to me?-I have yet t call them?

 

[bholler]

I will have to remove brick arch and reinstall.

You could probably do it with them inplace. What are they for i have never seen that before. As far as the cap just use the cap that goes with your liner system. And no olympia will not sell directly to you unless they have changed that policy to but i don't think so.

 

[donmac]

Arches just for looks. There are two round flue liners in the chimney with an arch directly over each flue. I am only lining one. I will call Olympia anyway to ask about other products the sell. Many thanks and I will seek your input with specifics as I proceed.

 

[Devito72]

Price is very high try Amazon I got a 6"x20' 316ti liner shipped for $332

 

[bholler]

Price is very high try Amazon I got a 6"x20' 316ti liner shipped for $332

Yes but that was nowhere near the same liner he is talking about

 

[donmac]

Bholler:
Saw video of double liner install in UK on another post. They show using clamp on top of top plate. They also show using a short reinforcement sleeve inside top of liner to keep from crushing liner with support clamp. I have not seen this as a part provided in kits I have reviewed. I called Olympia to get info about my Armor flex liner preference and can't get access to website for more detail on parts needed to complete my install. What is that part called? Also you recommend using SS screws or rivets to reinforce hold on liner at the clamp connection. Which do you prefer and do they get in the way of placing cap into position? Also I assume the storm collar fits over clamp and is tightened and silicone in place before cap goes on. In addition to the liner and insulation kit I intend to buy a cap (can other brand caps work as I am not liking what I see provided in the Olympia kit and can't get to catalog to see full line of product choices), storm collar, support clamp, heavy top plate, stove connector (don't know what angle). I need to remove part of existing cast iron damper and brick at rear creating the shelf. I intend to remove only as much as needed to see if I can re-use old damper plate to help provide for a modified block off plate or at least support for a new one created from scratch. Good idea or not? Also given the weight of liner (6" X 20') would it make sense to buy and extra support clamp like one used at top to add additional support at the damper area assuming I can save enough of the existing cast frame to attach to? Again, would you use rivets or screws and would this compromise the liner to allow smoke/liquid leaks. Thanks for you help!

 

[bholler]

Saw video of double liner install in UK on another post. They show using clamp on top of top plate. They also show using a short reinforcement sleeve inside top of liner to keep from crushing liner with support clamp. I have not seen this as a part provided in kits I have reviewed.

I have never seen that before either but believe me if you are using armor flex you don't need that. Armor flex is very different from the liner they are using you will not crush it.

I called Olympia to get info about my Armor flex liner preference and can't get access to website for more detail on parts needed to complete my install. What is that part called?

Yeah they only deal with pros directly again you dont need that part i watched that and several other YouTube vids and much of the info and advice was pretty bad.

Also you recommend using SS screws or rivets to reinforce hold on liner at the clamp connection. Which do you prefer and do they get in the way of placing cap into position?

Rivets are much stronger so if your liner is long and the clamp will have allot of weight hanging off it you should use rivets. otherwise screws will be fine. But your tee and any other connections on the liner should be riveted. And no it will not interfere they are designed to me installed this way

Also I assume the storm collar fits over clamp and is tightened and silicone in place before cap goes on. In addition to the liner and insulation kit I intend to buy a cap (can other brand caps work as I am not liking what I see provided in the Olympia kit and can't get to catalog to see full line of product choices), storm collar, support clamp, heavy top plate, stove connector (don't know what angle)

That sounds about right. As far as the cap goes technically you should use the cap designed to go with the system but honestly i dont see a problem with using a different one as long as it is not to restrictive.

I need to remove part of existing cast iron damper and brick at rear creating the shelf. I intend to remove only as much as needed to see if I can re-use old damper plate to help provide for a modified block off plate or at least support for a new one created from scratch.

You dont want to try to cut that damper plate it is a pain just get some sheet metal and make one.

Also given the weight of liner (6" X 20') would it make sense to buy and extra support clamp like one used at top to add additional support at the damper area assuming I can save enough of the existing cast frame to attach to? Again, would you use rivets or screws and would this compromise the liner to allow smoke/liquid leaks. Thanks for you help!

Nope not necessary and wont help any regardless. It is designed to be hung in the chimney with no other support. And a 20' by 6" is not that heavy it will be fine. I have hung allot bigger and a lot longer liners than that with no issues at all

 

[donmac]

Bholler:
Many thanks again. You know I will have more questions as I proceed. If you prefer private email let me know.

 

[bholler]

Many thanks again. You know I will have more questions as I proceed. If you prefer private email let me know.

It does not matter to me you might as well post it for others to see.

 

[donmac]

Good point- I am going to order material on Monday.
Thanks

 

[Hickorynut]

It does not matter to me you might as well post it for others to see.

Bholler, you are a good man helping others like you do, as in this thread, very impressive ^5s.

 

[therdlesstravld]

Ima throw another attaboy your way bholler. Many professionals in any of the construction fields (im a carpenter ive dealt with all types) look down on anyone trying to do their own work. Most say if your not a pro you shouldn't be doing anything for yourself. That's pretty elitist if you ask me. This guys trying his best to get what he wants installed and has been struggling with the pros in his area so I'm sure its a relief to get info based off your experiences as an installer. Good on you.

 

[donmac]

+1 times 1000 for the last two posts regarding bholler!
I have not expressed how much I appreciate his advice and expertise. HIs input and patience have made me more comfortable moving forward. I was willing to pay a fair price for what I wanted using local pros but that did not happen. I appreciate everyone's input thus far.
Many thanks again bholler.

 

[NVHunter]

+1 times 1000 for the last two posts regarding bholler!
I have not expressed how much I appreciate his advice and expertise. HIs input and patience have made me more comfortable moving forward. I was willing to pay a fair price for what I wanted using local pros but that did not happen. I appreciate everyone's input thus far.
Many thanks again bholler.

Well unfortunately this seems to be the same situation for me. I've contacted numerous shops and sweeps to see if they want to install my liner. Half say no, half say only if you buy the stove from us (nope going with the Ideal Steel) and the others won't even call me back to give me a quote after coming out and looking around.

Last guy that came out used a wonder bar to pry my cap off the terracotta (instead of unscrewing the wing nuts to take the top off to look down the flue...) and then "glued" it back down with an 1/8" wide line of silicon after putting it on crocked... Then left his wonder bar on the crown of my chimney when he left. I saw it sitting there three hours after he left.

Said he'd call me with a quote but I've never heard from him since. Guess it's a good thing based on his "re-install" of my cap. Thanks for the wonder bar too....

I just don't get how SOME people make a living treating customers this way.

This is why I will be installing my liner myself, one no professional wants to and second, I know it will be done correctly with attention to detail (and some help from the helpful people here!!)

 

[fire_man]

You could probably do it with them inplace. What are they for i have never seen that before. As far as the cap just use the cap that goes with your liner system. And no olympia will not sell directly to you unless they have changed that policy to but i don't think so.

Bholler

Just wanted to thank you for all your great posts coming from an experienced and knowledgable installer who is taking time to help others. I have learned a lot from you.

 

[bholler]

Well gee thanks guys

 

[Niko]

Make sure you have the right tools for everything. Tripl check measurements and do not rush youself at all.

I would make sure your chmney is super clean this way you dont all the crap falling jnto your house.

A second helper is always good to have.

Be very careful when doing the demo. Small handheld hilti jackhammer would work nice. Bring garbage can with lid inside to but debree in.

Also another thought when doing the demo i would spray with water what you demoing to keep the dust down and have a shop van on and pointed to the spots your breaking out.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'm ready to try it myself and rent a lift as I realize this liner will be heavy but I do not want to get into it and realize I'm in over my head

Do it. An educated and capable homeowner will often do a better job than the so called "pros" often times. Half of 'em are hacks, some ins co's require "pro" install...HA! There are very few knowledgeable and conscientious installers like @bholler in the wood burner field...IMO of course.

Bholler, you are a good man helping others like you do, as in this thread, very impressive ^5s

Ima throw another attaboy your way bholler

+1 times 1000 for the last two posts regarding bholler!

Bholler
Just wanted to thank you for all your great posts coming from an experienced and knowledgable installer who is taking time to help others. I have learned a lot from you

Yup, good on you bholler!

 

[NVHunter]

Do it. An educated and capable homeowner will often do a better job than the so called "pros" often times. Half of 'em are hacks, some ins co's require "pro" install...HA! There are very few knowledgeable and conscientious installers like @bholler in the wood burner field...IMO of course.
I

I 100% agree with this statement. What is one to do if there homeowners insurance requires a "pro" to do it, but you can't find a "pro" who will do it or you trust doing it.....

There lies my predicament. Insurance gal told me the under writer told her they "require a licensed contractor install the stove". Then said they don't require proof of this, just that they want it done by a pro. She then said if a claim is filed then I may need to furnish proof it was installed by said "pro"...

Not sure what I'm gonna do.

Bholler, want to travel out west to help me complete my install.... ? Haha

 

[brenndatomu]

She then said if a claim is filed then I may need to furnish proof it was installed by said "pro"...

Just go online and get your "license"...I know people that have done that to marry people

 

[BrotherBart]

Laser printers can create really nice looking invoices.

 

[NVHunter]

Well she did say "stove" so I'm gonna just go with the stove and chimney as separate items... Already had a sweep say the clay flue is in good condition with no cracks and that's in writing. I'm just "adding protection" with the liner.

Then I'll have someone with a "license" attach the stove to the Chimney.

 

[bholler]

Just go online and get your "license"...I know people that have done that to marry people

Do you realize how much it costs to get certified? lol There are lots of good pros out there but like in all fields there are hacks who will cut corners just to make an extra buck. You need to do your research and find a good one. And yes in many cases a good knowledgeable homeowner can do a fine job. But there are also lots that are allot more complicated and probably should not be attempted by a novice.