Full Chisel Chain: WOW!

[richg]

Gang,

Thanks for the advice on chains...I put a full chisel on my Jonsered 2149, and today me and a buddy dropped two huge ash trees. My Stihl 460 has a safety chain that will soon be in the garbage....it did great, but man, the Jonsered was a beast! No comparison to the old safety chain.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Its pretty amazing what 50cc and a real chain can do.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Keep the safety chain for any time you have dirty, sandy, gritty wood you have to buck.

Matt

 

[Dune]

Are there any safety concerns when using full chisel?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Same safety concerns as with any saw chain. Treat with respect and it will serve you well.

 

[savageactor7]

I wouldn't throw the safety chain away...tighten it up on your bar and take a few thousands off the rakers with an angle grinder. Of course that isn't proper procedure but it works.

 

[LLigetfa]

Are there any safety concerns when using full chisel?

Safety/non-safety is not about square chisels, it's about the absence of guard links.

 

[lazeedan]

I put a full chisel on my Echo this year and I was amazed.

 

[Ken45]

I put a full chisel on my Echo this year and I was amazed.

I know the full chisel cuts better, but I have to ask if your old chain was properly sharpened. If your chain wasn't properly sharpened, you might have been amazed with a new safety chain too

Ken

 

[ikessky]

I put a full chisel on my Echo this year and I was amazed.

I know the full chisel cuts better, but I have to ask if your old chain was properly sharpened. If your chain wasn't properly sharpened, you might have been amazed with a new safety chain too

Ken

Just my experience, but safety chains are slower even when they have been properly and freshly sharpened. We dropped the rackers down a little more than necessary and the Stihl semi-chisel that I put on still out performed the safety chain.

 

[Dune]

Somewhat disapointed by the answers to my question.

 

[Ken45]

Somewhat disapointed by the answers to my question.

The answer to your question is obvious.

ALL chain saws are dangerous. Safety chain is designed to reduce kickback. Of course full chisel chain is MORE dangerous than safety chain.

Personally, I'm willing to stick with a sharp safety chain for whatever additional safety it affords me. When I was an EMT, we had a run where a guy had a chain saw kick back and catch him in the face. Not nice. That was back before safety chain was available. Would it have make a difference? I don't know.

There, does that answer your question clearly enough, or are you still disappointed?

Ken

 

[SolarAndWood]

I find them less dangerous. You are much more likely to let the saw do the work than pushing it through because of impatience. Safety chain to me is kind of like a dull blade on an underpowered table saw.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Somewhat disapointed by the answers to my question.

Never do anything with a chainsaw you aren't comfortable with. No matter what type of chain you are running you have little pieces of metal shaped to eat away at an object spinning at 12-14,000 revolutions per minute. An argument could be made that calling it "safety" chain will lure the naive into thinking they are safe from injury.

I don't believe it is more dangerous unless you aren't paying attention to your work and surroundings.

Matt

 

[Dune]

To you, the answer is obvious. To me, it was not, that is why I asked. Thankyou for the answer, and yes, I am still disapointed, as this is hardly the first time I have asked this question here.
Because of your answer I will continue to use safety chain. Again, thankyou.

By the way, what are guard links?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Are there any safety concerns when using full chisel?

Somewhat disapointed by the answers to my question.

I don't know what information you were exactly looking for. So I'll try again.

Santa Claus said it best in A Christmas Story: You'll shoot your eye out, kid.

Matt

 

[EatenByLimestone]

To you, the answer is obvious. To me, it was not, that is why I asked. Thankyou for the answer, and yes, I am still disapointed, as this is hardly the first time I have asked this question here.
Because of your answer I will continue to use safety chain. Again, thankyou.

By the way, what are guard links?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainsaw_safety_features

2nd to last sentence in the chain section.

Matt

 

[Dune]

Are there any safety concerns when using full chisel?

Somewhat disapointed by the answers to my question.

I don't know what information you were exactly looking for. So I'll try again.

Santa Claus said it best in A Christmas Story: You'll shoot your eye out, kid.

Matt

Thanks for taking the time to reply. See post #11 above. Ignorance of a specific subject does not indicate general stupidity.

 

[Dune]

To you, the answer is obvious. To me, it was not, that is why I asked. Thankyou for the answer, and yes, I am still disapointed, as this is hardly the first time I have asked this question here.
Because of your answer I will continue to use safety chain. Again, thankyou.

By the way, what are guard links?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainsaw_safety_features

2nd to last sentence in the chain section.

Matt

Thankyou.

 

[LLigetfa]

Somewhat disapointed by the answers to my question.

Then you need to ask better questions. You question implied that the shape of the cutter might somehow be more dangerous. Cutters are not really the factor. There is also non-safety chain with round cutters.

People often make the leap from reduced kickback (safety) round cutter chain to a semi/full chisel. There then are two factors that changed, the shape of the cutter and the absence of guard links.

 

[Dune]

Yeah, thanks, it usualy is my fault. I sometimes forget that in spite of having a wife.

So now I know, safety chain is reduced kickback chain, less likely to kill me, and certainly productive enough for the three or so cords I burn per year.

Thankyou for the details.

 

[Kong]

Let me chime in with what I want you to understand is nothing but my opninion - its not fact, its not hearsay, its not based on a dream or advertising, just a coupld of decades behind a chain saw for home firewood accumulation.

Anti-kickback (safety) chains can certainly "kick back" and if the saw is used with any level of common sense a standard full chisel chain won't kick back on you. Like I said, I was out running a chain saw the day Reagan got elected and between then and now I doubt that I've had a chain saw "kick back" on me more than twice.

Having said that I also want to tell you that all I use is full chisel chains and that's all I've used since tail-fins were in vogue. I have the very nasty habit of plunge cutting with the tip of the bar when a chain starts to get dull and I only have a little wood left to cut - it gets every last bit out of the chain. Its hell on the chain and makes resharpening a pain in the butt but I just can't help myself sometimes. Even doing that, the most henious of chain-saw-crimes, the things don't kick back. I'm not a big guy either, just about 5-7 and maybe 170 pounds soaking wet so its not like somehow muscle power is absorbing the kick - there ain't enough of me to absorb much of anything and certainly no inclination to try it.

So in a nutshell my advise is not to worry about it so much and just go get the real chain. It will cut faster, be easier to resharpen, and you'll tire less from the work of cutting.

 

[Ken45]

Let me chime in with what I want you to understand is nothing but my opninion - its not fact, its not hearsay, its not based on a dream or advertising, just a coupld of decades behind a chain saw for home firewood accumulation.

Anti-kickback (safety) chains can certainly "kick back" and if the saw is used with any level of common sense a standard full chisel chain won't kick back on you. Like I said, I was out running a chain saw the day Reagan got elected and between then and now I doubt that I've had a chain saw "kick back" on me more than twice.

Having said that I also want to tell you that all I use is full chisel chains and that's all I've used since tail-fins were in vogue. I have the very nasty habit of plunge cutting with the tip of the bar when a chain starts to get dull and I only have a little wood left to cut - it gets every last bit out of the chain. Its hell on the chain and makes resharpening a pain in the butt but I just can't help myself sometimes. Even doing that, the most henious of chain-saw-crimes, the things don't kick back. I'm not a big guy either, just about 5-7 and maybe 170 pounds soaking wet so its not like somehow muscle power is absorbing the kick - there ain't enough of me to absorb much of anything and certainly no inclination to try it.

So in a nutshell my advise is not to worry about it so much and just go get the real chain. It will cut faster, be easier to resharpen, and you'll tire less from the work of cutting.

But I suspect that the power of the saw has a lot to do with being able to control kickback. One should be more able to control kickback from a low powered saw than one of the high powered, lightweight saws.

 

[LLigetfa]

Here is a good pic showing guard links. They act as a ramp in front of the rakers.

(broken link removed to http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/images/g01959art02.jpg)

Some people think raker is the wrong terminology, that they are depth gauges. Actually, they are both... At least with regard to non-safety chain, the rakers rake the chips forward. With safety chain, the chips however don't get raked because of the sloped guard links which tend to climb over the chips, lifting the cutters from the wood the depth gauges were meant to control. Also, there is only so much space in the kerf between the cutters for the chips and the guard links occupy too much of the space. Skip chain can help in that regard.

 

[Dune]

I cut about 1/2 a cord of very old oak today. Felled and bark peeled over 5 years ago. No rot, very hard. Started with a real sharp chain, finished with a real dull chain. Noticed my chain has guard links. Also noticed I have a tendency to have head in line with saw, and, with logs on the ground, to cut most way through, then roll over the log and finnish the cut with the top of the bar instead of the bottom.
How bad of a habit is it to use the top of the bar? Should I try to avoid doing that at all costs? To be honest, I am generaly too lazy to sharpen my own chains. I figure for the amount of money I save on oil, I can pay a pro to sharpen a few chains a year for me. I often sharpen other things for other people, so I am sure I could master saw chains. Thanks for the info in this thread, I learned a lot today!