Garn, all wrapped up

[heaterman]

For your viewing pleasure here's a few pics of the insulation kit. If y'all would be so kind, please let me know what you think of it.

 

[Gooserider]

Looks nice, does it come in different colors? The GF would prefer something in a pastel... :kiss:

More seriously, what sort of R-value does that cover give, and how does that compare to some of the other home brew solutions like putting the boiler in a box full of cellulose or fiberglass batts?

Gooserider

 

[kabbott]

Looks pretty simple. What is it some kind of fiberglass board with foil facing? Whats under the white plastic?

As far as color goes... Who ever heard of a white boiler, Not very manly if ya ask me. :roll:

 

[sgschwend]

That is a great looking setup. I do like using OSB for shop walls (I can go down to the commercial paint store and find 5 gallon buckets of paint for $30 and then paint the walls a lighter color, makes the lighting work a lot better).

Where's the firewood?

 

[Gooserider]

Looks pretty simple. What is it some kind of fiberglass board with foil facing? Whats under the white plastic?

As far as color goes... Who ever heard of a white boiler, Not very manly if ya ask me. :roll:

Exactly... You got to be MACHO about these things, kind of like the guy in a town where I used to live that drove around in a "Mary-Kay" pink pickup truck...

Gooserider

 

[heaterman]

Looks nice, does it come in different colors? The GF would prefer something in a pastel... :kiss:

More seriously, what sort of R-value does that cover give, and how does that compare to some of the other home brew solutions like putting the boiler in a box full of cellulose or fiberglass batts?

Gooserider

Silly boy, it's white so you can easily tell when it needs dusting..!!

As far as performance goes, it seems to do very well. It's the same type of insulation Viessmann uses on their large cast iron boilers. Actually a bit heavier. The side blanket is rated at r-15 and the front/back is r-13, both at 120* temp differential. IR on the outside of the jacket yesterday showed that with a room temp of 61* the sides were running between 63-67* on the face. The aluminum facing on the front ran a couple degrees warmer. The combustion motor air discharge was about 120* and that along with the uninsulated piping and HX seemed to be putting most of the heat into the room. The room is 16x20 with a 10' ceiling and very well insulated.

AFA how does it compare to the build a box and stuff it...............I have no doubt that higher R-values can be and are achieved with that type of setup. The caveat there is how well that plan is executed. Having worked on a bunch of these, I like the serviceability offered by this setup. Easy to get at anything on the back or top if you have to.

 

[heaterman]

Looks pretty simple. What is it some kind of fiberglass board with foil facing? Whats under the white plastic?

As far as color goes... Who ever heard of a white boiler, Not very manly if ya ask me. :roll:

The front and back are 3" thick fiberglass board with the front being faced with aluminum for fire safety and durability while the back is the same reinforced polypropylene as the side blanket. The sides are 4" thick 1# density fiberglass which is about 4x the weight of normal building type stuff you put in your walls.

OK OK .........I'll see if they can get the facing in colors

 

[Mid Michigan]

Looks nice!
Did you look into the PVC cover? It comes in sheets and can be glued and I believe riveted also. May be possible to wrap entire boiler in 1 or 2 pieces. It would be stronger and resist punctures better. I am sure it is more expensive though too.

 

[Como]

I think it looks nice too.

For some reason plastic near a major heat source worries me.

I see all the controls are tucked away in the rear. Just wondering why as there seems to be plenty of space to have them more available.

 

[heaterman]

Looks nice!
Did you look into the PVC cover? It comes in sheets and can be glued and I believe riveted also. May be possible to wrap entire boiler in 1 or 2 pieces. It would be stronger and resist punctures better. I am sure it is more expensive though too.

A number of reasons actually. PVC in a light enough gauge to be flexible is not much different strength wise than that particular poly pro. PVC is actually more flammable according to the factory guys. The poly pro seams are sealed with 5" wide reinforced tape which allows seams to easily be slit and retaped if the need to "undress" the boiler ever arose. PVC would be more difficult to do that with. From what I was told the PVC would not bond to the insulation as well along with adding a couple hundred to the price of the kit. I also considered a foil faced product but that is basically just paper with a foil scrim on it. Poor durability as well as fire issues. The poly pro is also easily "repaired" if someone/thing rips it. The kit comes with a 50 yard roll of seamseal tape, of which a person will have about 20 yards left over. This can easily be used to "patch" any perforations down the road.

The kit for the 1500's has only two pieces/one seam but the 2000 being 10' long needs an additional 2' piece with the accompanying seam. Staying with the 4' width allows the same pieces to be used for the 1500 and the 2000 again helping to keep the cost more reasonable than going with 5' pieces on the 2000.

I went back and checked on it again this morning. Boiler was at 145*, room temp was 68*, exterior of the jacket was running between 66 at floor level to 73 at the top.

 

[heaterman]

I think it looks nice too.

For some reason plastic near a major heat source worries me.

I see all the controls are tucked away in the rear. Just wondering why as there seems to be plenty of space to have them more available.

I hear you but if you think about it, the "heat source" is the loading area which is covered with aluminum. The sides and back are not exposed to flame or sparks unless someone gets REALLY crazy.

The piping package turned out to be quite tight considering all the other space in the room. The entry point for the pex was dictated by other things going on outside the building plus the well and electrical supply for the room all came in at the same location so it got kind of cluttered there. Actually, the pics don't really show it well. The circs are both easily accessible and there are no controls actually behind the Garn.

 

[Como]

Is this something you manufactured for your own installs or something you will be marketing?

Hope it is not breaching any rules to ask.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Steve,

For a stand alone install like that, this is an excellent solution. Sometimes boxing in the whole unit is not feasible or desirable.

Your second report answered one question - that the surface temps should be higher as you go up the unit. Perhaps a second "cap" layer could be added (optionally) to provide more insulation along the upper third of the tank where the highest delta T is.

BTW - love the new cad plated door, motor mount and cleanout plates. :coolsmile:

 

[heaterman]

Durango

It's an item I've been working on to sell because the topic comes up often when talking with many customers about how to insulate a Garn. Many are put off by the thought of having to build an enclosure and insulate it once in place. As far as discussing the particulars of that I would kindly ask that if you have questions, please contact me directly. It's Craig's website and I don't think it's right for me or anyone else to take up his bandwidth pushing a particular product. That's not fair to him and if everyone did it the place would turn into a zoo. I like it the way it is. I have a website going up at (broken link removed) and there's a contact form there if you want details, my personal e-mail is [email protected] if you want to contact me that way.

 

[heaterman]

Steve,

For a stand alone install like that, this is an excellent solution. Sometimes boxing in the whole unit is not feasible or desirable.

Your second report answered one question - that the surface temps should be higher as you go up the unit. Perhaps a second "cap" layer could be added (optionally) to provide more insulation along the upper third of the tank where the highest delta T is.

BTW - love the new cad plated door, motor mount and cleanout plates. :coolsmile:

Thanks Jim

I expected to see some variation in bottom to top temp also as the Garn does such a good job of keeping things stratified in the tank. The manufacturer and I have discussed an "arctic weight" kit that would have an additional layer of high density glass to place over the boiler before wrapping it up with the kit shown in the pics. The thought behind that is some of the Garns we have done are in unheated and uninsulated buildings and one can use all the insulation he can get in that scenario.

And yah! the doors rock. I'm going to tell Martin that they should do the same with the manhole cover one of these days.

Also i should add that we weren"t 100% finished with taping things up when those pics were taken. Looks a little more finished now.

 

[flyingcow]

Like it. I like that better than building a box, just for the reasons you stated. Looks neat. BTW, i like the color.

 

[brad068]

Heaterman, Do you use any of the ceramic fiber blanket? I got a 1"x24"x25' for @100$. It was the 2600*F stuff. You can put that stuff right over the bottom cleanout covers to insulate them, and over the fan plates and around the exhaust exit. Cuts well with a pizza cutter, or box knife.

 

[Mid Michigan]

Back to the PVC. I believe it is good to 150*. If you have a temperature higher than that on the outside of boiler after in is insulated I think your insulation has failed.

Heaterman,

I was just curious if you had checked into it as a majority of all HW and CHW in commercial buildings are covered with it and it makes for a real nice finish. I have seen 18" CHW lines covered in 4" of insulation and then covered in PVC. That's were I figured out you can get it in rolls.

Good Luck on it which ever route you go!