Garn Owners: What are your Annual Costs?

[surefire]

What are your annual maintenance costs to running your GARN? Chemicals, lab sample shipping, parts, etc.

Not including firewood and electricity, of course

Is anyone still using anode rods, and if so, how often are you having to replace them?

Thanks!

 

[surefire]

Also, please state which size of Garn you have, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3200.

 

[3fordasho]

What are your annual maintenance costs to running your GARN? Chemicals, lab sample shipping, parts, etc.

Not including firewood and electricity, of course

Is anyone still using anode rods, and if so, how often are you having to replace them?

Thanks!

@Smithers

 

[eauzonedan]

Sorry if not spot on target, but think this is the input your may be looking for:

Karl from Northwind/Sustainable Heating designed my system - around my Garn 1500. That was first fired fall of 2014. Spending money for a good design will come back to save money in the long haul. Unless you have some serious background in hvac or don't want to do things trial and error - spend some bucks on that part of the process and save even more down the road.

I dropped a few bucks on filters after the first year as I had a lot of iron in the well water and it had to be chemically dropped out of solution - and then filtered out. As a few Garn enhancements came along I did purchase them (damper, rain cap and the filter system) but otherwise I have not spent a penny the last two years other than postage - to mail in water samples twice a year. Precision Chemical was great to work with and was concerned with getting my chemistry right and keeping it there.

Water chemistry should be your concern with any manufacture - whenever stored water and steel is involved. Chemicals for the Garn would be on your nickel after year one, but if you need em you need em. That is not a Garn thing, but really a storage thing. Unless you over fire or have leaks, once you get dialed in - water shouldn't be a monetary issue. I did just see a new recommendation to drain/inspect/refill at 3-5 years. It was noted you could buy a kid sized swimming pool to hold the water if you didn't want to re-do chemicals. Again not just a Garn issue........ but likely a good idea with any storage approach if you could get at things to inspect them.

The anode went away with no noted ill effects

Kieth, David and Martin at Garn have always been there for questions and have stood behind their product in a way that is nothing short of amazing The point I'm trying to make is that there is no free lunch out there and shopping just on an up front purchase price is not the whole picture. This kind of investment is for the long haul and a few extra bucks up front are well worth it. I just talked to Garn today as I have had a couple intermittent phantom hits on my sensor telemetry. Phone support and a new chip coming at me gratis..... like I said "good people" and support like that is hard to quantify. Not saying the other guys you're looking at are bad as I don't have any history with them - buy do yourself a favor end get some history before you pull the trigger and know who you may be getting into a long term relationship with......

Good Luck

Dan

 

[surefire]

Thanks, Dan. Like you say, customer support is priceless, and I've heard good things about the Garn folks.

I've been following everything "Garn" on this great forum for a few years, and I guess a few odd negative reports has got me gun-shy.
The Garn is still my "boiler first love" and thus I probably want to be convinced it's still the best way to go for me.

 

[Buzz Saw]

Another possible cost is flue gaskets, if the" gasket savers" don't work as designed.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[eauzonedan]

More Nuggets of Garn Info

My boiler sat on a trailer in my pole barn for two years before installation in a dedicated building. Unsure it that was part of the issue but the first set of gaskets were pretty well glued to the paint and were damaged the first time I removed them. Thereafter I wrapped them in kitchen foil and then coated them with a film of Dow food grade silicone paste. Now on third year of those gaskets The paste is available in a tooth paste tube from industrial suppliers of O rings etc. This stuff was food grade and good for high temps. I still keep a spare set of gaskets on the shelf as they will eventually need to be replaced again some day. I will likely try Garn's new SS gasket plates and see how those work..

I managed to bust a few fire brick the first year. Operator error and you learn to lay and not DROP sticks into the fire box.

Other bits and pieces to think about or budget for:

Cleaning Brush Set - Two for boiler tubes (from Garn) plus one for the stack...... plus a set of rods. Need to use about once a year.

Wheel Puller - To pull blower wheel off shaft and if you need it - you'll need it. Drilled and tapped bar stock device available from Garn or you could also build it.

Damper if not currently part of a Garn package. I would consider it a MUST if using a vertical stack and still a good idea if going horizontal. Keeps outdoor air from thermo-cycling thru boiler during down time, which is typically many times your actual burn times........ (3x up to 10x due to batch burn which if I recall correctly is something like 300k btu burn rate - with most of that recharging the 3/4 m btu of storage in the 1500)

Rain Cap if going vertical.

Tank Filter System if not currently part of the Garn package. Both Precision Chem and the Garn guys recommended it. Mine is just plugged into the duplex outlet on the controller and cycles with the blower. I ran it fill time for a few weeks till nothing more was trapped. Currently on same filter for over a year.

Spare circ. pump which would cover you if one pukes. Depending on your design - the same one may work as a temp fix for your emitters, HX as well as the tank filter. You can get by without the tank filter for few days....... not so for the others.......

In a pinch you can by-pass the whole controller unit as the blower just plugs into a duplex outlet on the side of it. Low tech but would work.to just stick it in the wall and time it......

The blower motor is a single point of failure that I don't have covered. (knock wood)...... still on my original one and don't have a spare.

Good Luck on your selection process............ Nobody said it would be easy!

Dan

 

[surefire]

Thank you again Dan, that's an awesome summary.

I can totally understand keeping a set of spare parts, and maybe one should plan that into the initial investment. Is there just one standard chemical treatment? Could one keep extra on hand?

Yes, I recall reading on here someone recommending removing the cleanouts ASAP after delivery to keep the gaskets from sticking. Good reminder.

 

[eauzonedan]

I don’t think stocking chemicals would be advised. The purpose of the twice a year sample program is to monitor a number of different parameters and without knowledge of the issue - they could not recommend the specific fix. As noted once you get chemistry dialed in - additional chemicals are seldom needed and shelf life could therefore also be an issue. Dan

 

[Buzz Saw]

Speaking of chemicals, I just got back my results from my sample I took about 2 weeks ago. Everything tested within acceptable range. I got the "OK" from presicion chemical to proceed and test in 9 months.

This round of water treatment cost less than $8.00(mailing the water sample).

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[Buzz Saw]

Cleaning Brush Set - Two for boiler tubes (from Garn) plus one for the stack...... plus a set of rods. Need to use about once a year.

Do you recommend a brand of rods and brushes. This is my first full season with house and workshop hooked to the GARN and I need to clean the flues soon. Exhaust temps are starting to climb higher than normal.

What sort of exhaust temps do you see when it's time to clean?

Thanks

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[eauzonedan]

I used Garn flue brushes as I wanted their knowledge on the fit up. They show up on the web site parts. Think they are 4” and 5” with steel tines but threw out packaging. My vertical stack brush is poly to protect the stainless and is a carry over from my wood stove. Rods are standard available anywhere.
The first 3 tubes are easy as you can run the blower and dump/exhaust all the dust out of your building via your blower. Use caution on the first boiler tube in the area of the reaction chamber as the brush can damage the soft material. The last two tubes downstream are more ugly and I use a shop vac to clean up the residual crud in them. . You need to pull the blower motor off for these - so no power exhaust is possible. The last tube is also a larger diameter and ends at your stainless pipe . This is why two sizes of tube brushes are needed. Lots of crud also accumulated in the blower wheel chamber.
I also use the opportunity to hit the firebox with a wire brush - hose clamped to a piece of conduit. A fair amount of heat is transferred here also. Use lp air and blast out the air collar from the upper and lower openings as that will be full of dust etc. Run your blower for easy clean up here also. If using the shop vac for any of this I have sufficient hose to get it outside as it’s not good stuff to breath and a normal vac filter is not fine enough. Be advised there is some insulation behind the thin steel plate on the air collar as well as under the fire brick you don’t want to damage
I was thinking maybe 25+ degree drop at the flue temp sensor is gained after the scrubb down. Not an exact number as this is part of my spring end of season thing.
It’s difficult to know for sure with all the variables of wood, outside temp, my later addition of a flue cap and the flow stabilizer as well as the longer tube runs in a 2000 versus a 1500 as to what temps you will run.... I thought I increased about 50 degrees with the flow stabelizer and roof cap add-on and attributed it to fewer cfm thru the beast. I see they now have a spark screen which could further impact flow also. One previous comment from David Lund indicated the biggest cfm impact was actually from the suction area upstream of the fire box... so I could be all wet. Gas flows can be tricky to quantify. I typically hit peak temp at 600 to 625 with my 1500 and that’s if loading about a hundred pounds of oak and dialing up the high tech fire brick to max height. Heaterman told me he normally sees a bit over 500 and if he was talking a 2000 with maybe 20% more tube length - my number could make sense. Be good to hear other people’s numbers.
Last thought is to blow dust out of motor windings and blower wheel while it is out. It all sounds worse than it is. It’s dirty and only takes about an hour.
Dan