gas fireplace supply

[Ashful]

Hi folks, got a bit of an issue with one of my outside fireplaces. It's a masonry fireplace equipped with a propane log set (Real Fyre G4-30PX-SS + SPK26P), and the original installer (for prior owners) did some hokey stuff with the construction.

They ran a plastic line thru conduit under my patio into a cavity below the flagstone fireplace floor, terminated in a steel (not stainless) fitting, and transitioned to a corrugated stainless line. This corrugated line goes thru a somewhat circuitous route under the floor of the fireplace, and then up thru a hole sawn in the corner of one of the flagstones, where it is terminated with a brass quarter-turn valve. The gas log set connects by another corrugated stainless line to this valve.

Transitioning from one line to another (plastic to stainless) in a blind cavity under the fireplace floor has been flagged as a safety hazard by my propane supplier. This caused me remove a section of the fireplace floor to investigate (a few minutes with the pneumatic hammer), which is when I found the fitting(s) making the transition were corroded almost beyond recognition. Good thing I caught it when I did.

I'd like to pull a new line, at least from end of conduit near regulator, up thru the fireplace floor, into the firebox itself. There I can either connect it directly to the gas burner supply line, or thru a valve if needed (regulator shut-off is only two dozen feet away, at other end of conduit). But I'm debating the best line type to use, and what will be needed to terminate either end of the line.

I'll include some photos, which might help.

 

[DAKSY]

If you can get it, 1/2” ID flexible corrugated stainless steel gas line would be my choice. Ward Flex makes a quality product with brass connection fittings that may tarnish a bit, but won’t corrode. The only issue is that you may need to be certified to purchase & install their products. Good luck with your project!

 

[Ashful]

Okay, Daksy. I dug up enough to get a better idea what’s happening.



The drops off the manifold (other than one) are some sort of sheathed composit product, not simple galvanized pipe, as noted by the damaged jacket in one and the crimps before the threaded adaptor going into the bottom of each union:



There is a surprisingly narrow gauge pigtail off each drop:



Those pigtails make a service loop deeper than I presently care to dig in rocky fill around plastic lines, and come up to what I guess are glued reducer couplings, where the lines transition to 3/4”IPS plastic:



There is an Elster Oerfection coupling on each line, after the transition to 3/4”, the purpose of which is not clear to me:



The area of concern is that plastic 3/4”IPS, which runs under the patio to the cavity below the fireplace. My thinking is to replace it with CSS such as TracPipe CounterStrike, and make one continuous pull from the end of the end of the conduit you see in these photos, into the masonry fireplace firebox. This leaves no buried or inaccessible transitions.

I can sleeve the CounterStrike with plastic flex conduit (or just caulk to jacket), where it penetrates fireplace floor, but I’m a little less sure of the legality of the buried connection at this regulator end. Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[DAKSY]

I have never seen the set up you’re showing, but as long as you enclose the new CSS gas line within a conduit that is 18” minimum below grade, you should be fine. That spec may or may not be code in Pa, but it is in NY, to the best of my recollection.

 

[Ashful]

Hi DAKSY,

I've been measuring tubing OD's, and I think I have an idea what's happening. The narrow gauge coming off the drops is 1/2" CTS (0.625" OD), and then it goes up to 1" CTS (1.125" OD) the reducing couplings. Those big black Elster Perfection Permasert couplings transition from 1" CTS (1.125" OD) to the clearly marked 3/4" IPS (1.050" OD).

I know that some gas companies prefer to run everything in IPS, and others do all their work in CTS. I also know the original plumbing was installed 2002, and I was told the lines under the patio were replaced in 2011 by the prior owner. What I think happened was the original installer ran the 1/2" CTS pigtails to those yellow reducers, and then 1" CTS into the conduit under the patio. Later, a different shop came out and replaced the 1" CTS in the conduit with 3/4" IPS, using those big black Elster Perfection Permasert couplings.

I'd be fine tearing the whole mess out, and running a new line right from the drop off the manifold, but it appears I have a few problems, for using regular CSST like TracPipe Counterstrike:

1. Conduit must be sealed liquid tight at both ends. My conduit terminates in dirt, and is presently open both ends.
2. No direct burial.

But a vented jacket product like PS-II, which might solve these issues, creates a real headache at the appliance (fireplace) end of this line.

What would you do?

 

[DAKSY]

Are you having the new installation inspected? If so, have the inspector tell you exactly what needs to be done. He has final say-so. If no inspection is going to be done, a product like a reducing Fernco & silicone caulk might be the answer to obtain water-tight seals.

 

[Ashful]

Thanks Daksy. No inspection, just wanting to be safe and to product spec.

I guess the main problem is, should transition to CSST be in air at manifold, in dirt, or in conduit? I think only legal to do it in air at manifold, but that means some direct burial before reaching conduit, and I thought most CSST is not rated for direct burial.

Other possibility would be extending conduit up above grade, and coming up off drip into