Gasification Boiler with Lambda question

[skatedoktor]

Looking for Indoor Gasification Boiler with Lambda that can charge 1000 gallon storage in one firing.

House and garage is 7000 sqft with heat loss of 60,000btuh at 45F for floor temp. Approx 10,000 feet of 1/2" radiant pipe.

Want a boiler that can in one burning cycle charge 1000 gallon of water. Suggestions

Thanks

 

[maple1]

Charge from what temp to what temp? Will it be supplying loads at the same time? That's a fairly big heat load - when I burn I burn when the loads are calling most, which is late afternoon & early evening. So quite a bit of the heat output then is not going to storage but rather the house. I think even when just going to storage it would take more than one load to fully charge my 660 gallons of storage (190/180?) if it is fully depleted (130/110?) with my 40kw unit.

I think you might be looking at a 60kw unit. Lamdbas aren't really all that prevalent, so you might not have many choices. Vigas, Varmebaronen & Frohling are ones that come quickly to mind.

How long do you need or expect the 1000 gallons of storage to carry your heating demand?

 

[huffdawg]

Takes me roughly 2 loads to raise storage temp from 140 to 185f when the outside temps are around -10c.. with a heat load close to 45,000 btu's. Thats burning one in the morning and one in the evening using douglas fir and hemlock.
The heat load calc is unofficial as I only had one done on my house and i'm guessing on the shop.

 

[skatedoktor]

From the tank being full charged at approx 175f down to 110f, I want to be able to recharge the system with one burn with no heat load going into the house. I want the heat load to last 24hrs. I want to be able to load boiler once per day in the middle of winter

 

[maple1]

Well, on the face of it, and with some round numbers, it would take about 540,000 BTU to heat 1000 gallons 65°.

540,000 BTU = 160 kwh.

160 kwh over a 4 hour burn would be a 40kw boiler.

But I'm pretty sure my 40kw boiler would not raise 1000 gallons 65° on one load of wood.

So take that for what it's worth.

EDIT: I'm also pretty sure 1000 gallons of storage would not keep my house warm for 24 hours in winter conditions. Using your 60,000 BTU/hr heat loss figure, 1000 gallons would only get you 9 hours with a 65° storage temp drop.

 

[ewdudley]

From the tank being full charged at approx 175f down to 110f, I want to be able to recharge the system with one burn with no heat load going into the house. I want the heat load to last 24hrs. I want to be able to load boiler once per day in the middle of winter

Forget the boiler, 1000 gallon won't cut it to begin with:

((60000 btu / hour) * (24 hour)) / ((65 degF btu/ degF lb) * (8.333 lb / gallon)) = 2658.5679 gallon

 

[maple1]

Ha, dueling posts.

But a consensus.

(Is two a consensus? )

 

[maple1]

Taking it further, to meet your stipulations, along with the almost 3000 gallons of storage, you would also need close to a 120kw boiler if you wanted to make your days heat in one loading (assuming 'standard' 4 hour burn time).

Which would take you to something like this:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/long-time-coming-installed-a-lopper-drummer-45-boiler.121101/

http://www.loppernorthamerica.com/drummer-cord-wood-boiler.html

(For example, the biggest Vigas is 100kw - I think.)

 

[Floydian]

House and garage is 7000 sqft with heat loss of 60,000btuh at 45F for floor temp.

Is the 60,000 btu/hr at design temp? If so, your avg heat loss might be half that. So in avg winter temps you might get close to 24 hours from storage especially if you utilize outdoor reset to guarantee minimum flow from storage.

But as stated, 60k btu/h and 1000 gallons is not gonna get you 24 hours.

From the tank being full charged at approx 175f down to 110f,

Is the 175 high end because of unpressurized storage?

Noah

 

[skatedoktor]

Okay, thanks. I work 70-80hrs a week so don't have time to keep filling a boiler. I think I might have to spend the 30k to get gas to the house

 

[Floydian]

Check out Windhager pellet boilers. Very efficient, high end, convenient etc. Maybe build a nice big hopper for it. This would easily fit your schedule.

Where are you located?

Noah

EDIT: here you go: http://www.hydro-to-heat-convertor.com/Windhager.html

 

[skatedoktor]

Noah, I would use pressurized storage, and also outdoor reset.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

if you utilize outdoor reset to guarantee minimum flow from storage

What is an outdoor reset?

 

[JP11]

My advice at this point.

If you own a woodlot. Continue with the idea of a wood boiler with storage.

If you don't' or aren't REALLY in love with the idea of scrounging and processing wood…. get a windhager or similar pellet boiler.

JP

 

[Floydian]

What is an outdoor reset?

I am using a Taco ivalve(3 way) with ODR to control supply temps to my radiant floor. With ODR, the ivalve is constantly changing the supply temp based on outdoor temps. The colder it gets outside, the warmer the supply temps gets and vice versa. I am using this with constant circulation as well. I really love my system

Noah

 

[skatedoktor]

Outdoor reset is hooked up to the supply valve that regulates the floor temperature. It monitors the outdoor temp and changes the temp going to the floor. For example if it is 14f out the supply will be 47f but if its 41f outside the supply would be 40f

It helps keep the house temp consistent and extends water storage time

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Ah I see! That sounds like a must have

 

[maple1]

Okay, thanks. I work 70-80hrs a week so don't have time to keep filling a boiler. I think I might have to spend the 30k to get gas to the house

That's a big chunk of change.

What's your wood supply situation?

It doesn't really take all that much time to operate a gassifying wood boiler. On the coldest days of winter, mine is only burning 10-12 hours max. On those days I light around noon, re-load two more times, and the fire is about out when I'm going to bed. But it's not often I do that - most winter days it's 6-8 hours so light around 4pm and re-load maybe once or '1.5' times. The re-loading only takes a few minutes. So if you burn two loads, you're only looking at something like loading and lighting once, say maybe around 6pm, then re-loading full 4 hours later. So in comparison to what you were originally thinking in doing one burn, it would only be an extra few minutes 4 hours later to stuff it full again.

A good suggestion above on the pellet boiler if time is a big issue - especially if you don't have a good wood supply situation and you're looking at 30k for getting hooked up to NG.

 

[Floydian]

What is an outdoor reset?

Here is a pic of the heat distribution side of my system. Storage acts as a hydraulic separator with the boiler only feeding storage.

Noah

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Keep in mind that the stated boiler output ratings are based on certain species and moisture content of wood. I would adjust for your wood source accordingly.

 

[jeffesonm]

If you don't have time to feed a boiler, you probably don't have time to cut/split/stack the amount of wood you'll need to heat your 7000 sq ft house.

I'd look into a pellet boiler.

 

[Fred61]

I second the suggestion on the installation of a pellet boiler. Whether you own your own woodlot or not, cordwood uses up a fair amount of your discretionary time and working 70-80 hrs/week and stacking and hauling wood isn't going to give you much time to relax and enjoy life.

 

[skatedoktor]

Its only in the winter I work that much, spring summer is 40-50hrs per week. I'm not interested in the pellet boiler.

 

[Floydian]

I'm not interested in the pellet boiler.

I can appreciate that, I'm a cord wood guy. I just threw that out there when I read this:

I think I might have to spend the 30k to get gas to the house

30K for bringing NG to your house is crazy, IMO.

Noah

 

[BoiledOver]

$30,000 minus $12,000 for a pellet boiler install leaves $18,000 to spend on pellets over "X" amount of years and way less time in handling versus cord wood. How long will 90 tons of pellets heat your demands?

The true cost of a pellet boiler instal may be more or less but $30,000 initial investment for any heat source would be questionable.