Alaska cabin - boiler vs wood stove?

[Log Home]

For an off grid log cabin kit build in interior Alaska, 1,800 square feet, 2 floors, 3 bedrooms, 1.5 bath, well, septic tank, solar system with backup diesel generator, I'm trying to decide on the main heat/fuel source for the cabin between wood logs vs coal, and a wood stove vs boiler, and which will be the most efficient cost effective reliable option. I want the heat source to be centralized in the center of the cabin.

I've read about and seen videos of the DS Stoves Energy Max 160. I like the fact it's a dual fuel non-electric furnace that burns wood logs and coal and can heat water throughout the house in a thermosyphon system and be connected to a hydronic system for floor and base heating and it's placed indoors and not have to go outside to feed/tend to it. Are there any non-electric stoves/furnaces/boilers superior to that for burn times and efficiency with similar features that is a "set it and forget it" with those 48+ hour burn times if that's possible ?

My concern with an outdoor boiler is feeding/tending it when it's negative -58 below zero F outside and seeing some YouTubers who have outdoor boilers they mention how much wood they consume, sometimes over 10 cords a season.

I've thought about having two different separate stoves installed, one would be the main centralized heater would be a large boiler/furnace style stove and the second a wood stove in the corner of the family room (Blaze King Princess 32).

If you were in my shoes starting from scratch and working with the contractors/builders how would you setup a log cabin from the ground up to be the most efficient and comfortable to make it through the cold winter months as smooth and as easy as possible with the least problems?

 

[salecker]

Hi
I am in the Yukon, on grid
My boiler is in a separate building, this is for fire, clean house and a 24/7 warm workshop.
I have a 1100 sg ft log house with full basement and 1/2 loft, 26 ft ceiling over kitchen and living room.
In my boiler building i have my gasafication boiler,1000 gallons of insulated storage, my back up oil boiler.
Average winter i use 8 cords of spruce
125 ft walk to the boiler building
18 years if use on the boiler, wouldn't change a thing except controls on the boiler to give me some freedom with a shutdown after the fire goes out.

 

[Log Home]

Hi
I am in the Yukon, on grid
My boiler is in a separate building, this is for fire, clean house and a 24/7 warm workshop.
I have a 1100 sg ft log house with full basement and 1/2 loft, 26 ft ceiling over kitchen and living room.
In my boiler building i have my gasafication boiler,1000 gallons of insulated storage, my back up oil boiler.
Average winter i use 8 cords of spruce
125 ft walk to the boiler building
18 years if use on the boiler, wouldn't change a thing except controls on the boiler to give me some freedom with a shutdown after the fire goes out.

Thanks for the reply and info...

How long are the burn times with your boiler and how often do you have to put in logs?

Are all boilers created equal or on par with each other with similar performance results or do different companies/manufacturers have much different results in their performance ?

Do these boilers burn both wood logs and coal and are dual fuel or, only designed for one fuel source ?

For Alaska, wood logs vs bituminous coal for fuel source ? In Alaska, there is affordable sub-bituminous coal available by the ton for purchase or, is it wiser to stick to a boiler that is designed for specifically wood logs ?

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

I would say: keep it stupid simple and go for a non-catalytic wood stove.
No electric required, no electric parts that can fail.

Anyways, .... Start splitting!

 

[salecker]

Thanks for the reply and info...

How long are the burn times with your boiler and how often do you have to put in logs?

Are all boilers created equal or on par with each other with similar performance results or do different companies/manufacturers have much different results in their performance ?

Do these boilers burn both wood logs and coal and are dual fuel or, only designed for one fuel source ?

For Alaska, wood logs vs bituminous coal for fuel source ? In Alaska, there is affordable sub-bituminous coal available by the ton for purchase or, is it wiser to stick to a boiler that is designed for specifically wood logs ?

My burn times vary with temperature.
But a normal winter day/night -20 C/ 4 below F has me burning from 5 ish when i get home to 11-12 ish when i go to bed. I can time when the burn is finished by the amount of wood in the boiler. When it is running it runs wide open so i like to add wood every 2 hours.
No not all boilers are created equal, lots of differences. Open or pressurized. Gasification or old school burns.
Some boilers can burn wood and coal.
I thought about going and getting a load of coal to try it, Fairbanks is only 535 miles from my place.I have a 35 ft end dump that would get me a good test load.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Note that he’s also running storage. That allows you to burn batches more efficiently, but adds complexity to the system.

 

[hobbyheater]

The second stove idea may bring up problems with insurance! My brother-in -law was refused insurance because he had two wood stoves !

 

[hyfire]

You need to build a separate room attached to the cabin with an indoor wood boiler. Loading times will be 7 cu ft every 3 hours 3-4 times a day with at least 500 Gallon storage. This will use about 600-800 watts per hour depending on your heat emttiters and number of pumps. About 20 kw day to run the Cabin approximately.

 

[Dieselhead]

The second stove idea may bring up problems with insurance! My brother-in -law was refused insurance because he had two wood stoves !

What about if he only used one at a time?

 

[blades]

insurance co/ underwriters do not like a none conventional heat source as primary heat. wood stoves and pellet stoves
are not considered conventional, the boiler is, regardless of the fuel.
Thermal cycle system might be pushing things a bit considering the amount of area. pretty sure you will need circulation pumps running to get even heating.
my own place - lp furnace and wood stove, 2200 sqft single level. stove is central floor plan. 90% of heating comes from the stove.

 

[Tonty]

@salecker, you should advise how well you have your log home insulated. The OP has posted on the woodstove forum extensively but largely avoids the question of insulation. I think that should be a major component of the build.

 

[stoveliker]

I think the 20 kWh per day for a boiler with pumps will remove this option from the list.

 

[Tonty]

https://switzerswoodburning.weebly.com/
I have a Switzer wood fired batch burner/boiler with 600 gallons of water storage that is part of the boiler unit. I'm in Kansas, so lowest temps I've seen here have been -20F with a -38F windchill or so, and that's never for very long. My house was built in 2017 with a spray foamed roof deck, and R-19 fiberglass batt in the walls. The windows are fiberglass frame with double pane, insulated glass. It's 3,400sq. ft. of living space with an attached 24'x32' garage that is also insulated and heated. I have hydronic in-floor heat on the main floor and garage, with a water to air heat exchanger in the forced air system for the second floor and also rapid heating of the main floor. It is a gambrel pitched "barndominuim", with open, gambrel pitched ceilings, so the cubic foot space would be larger than some. My boiler room is in a lean-to off my garage, and it is also insulated. I don't have to step outside to light my boiler. This set up heats my house, garage, and domestic hot water. On a typical Kansas winter day, I burn a batch of wood in the morning and another one in the evening. Each one takes about 2hrs. In the shoulder season, that drops to a burn every 24-36 hours. I grew up with a woodstove heated house and also heated our first home with a woodstove. In my experience, a woodstove will be more economical with the use of the wood, but it doesn't produce the btus or the even (same temp from room to room), controllable heat that a boiler setup provides. That statement is open to debate.
I'm not sure this would be a good set up for off grid Alaska. I have not measured any current draw for my setup. You'd obviously need a larger unit (more water storage, 1,500-3,000 gallons). A Switzer is a large, heavy unit, so shipping cost would be high. When the boiler is running, there is an electric powered inducer fan. The actual circulation pumps wouldn't draw much. There are a lot more working parts with a boiler set up, and while I have had very little trouble with mine, it seems like a simpler system like a woodstove would be better if you are a ways from any population center, especially if you are not a handy man and can't fix things yourself.

 

[salecker]

@salecker, you should advise how well you have your log home insulated. The OP has posted on the woodstove forum extensively but largely avoids the question of insulation. I think that should be a major component of the build.

Sure
Roof system has R120 in 75% of the roof at a 12-12 pitch, shed dormers are around R 90
Quad pane windows, basement is R 20 walls

 

[hyfire]

https://switzerswoodburning.weebly.com/
I have a Switzer wood fired batch burner/boiler with 600 gallons of water storage that is part of the boiler unit. I'm in Kansas, so lowest temps I've seen here have been -20F with a -38F windchill or so, and that's never for very long. My house was built in 2017 with a spray foamed roof deck, and R-19 fiberglass batt in the walls. The windows are fiberglass frame with double pane, insulated glass. It's 3,400sq. ft. of living space with an attached 24'x32' garage that is also insulated and heated. I have hydronic in-floor heat on the main floor and garage, with a water to air heat exchanger in the forced air system for the second floor and also rapid heating of the main floor. It is a gambrel pitched "barndominuim", with open, gambrel pitched ceilings, so the cubic foot space would be larger than some. My boiler room is in a lean-to off my garage, and it is also insulated. I don't have to step outside to light my boiler. This set up heats my house, garage, and domestic hot water. On a typical Kansas winter day, I burn a batch of wood in the morning and another one in the evening. Each one takes about 2hrs. In the shoulder season, that drops to a burn every 24-36 hours. I grew up with a woodstove heated house and also heated our first home with a woodstove. In my experience, a woodstove will be more economical with the use of the wood, but it doesn't produce the btus or the even (same temp from room to room), controllable heat that a boiler setup provides. That statement is open to debate.
I'm not sure this would be a good set up for off grid Alaska. I have not measured any current draw for my setup. You'd obviously need a larger unit (more water storage, 1,500-3,000 gallons). A Switzer is a large, heavy unit, so shipping cost would be high. When the boiler is running, there is an electric powered inducer fan. The actual circulation pumps wouldn't draw much. There are a lot more working parts with a boiler set up, and while I have had very little trouble with mine, it seems like a simpler system like a woodstove would be better if you are a ways from any population center, especially if you are not a handy man and can't fix things yourself.

Do you think your induction fan pulls 100 watts , and each pump should be about 40 watts average, plus the furnace blower can draw about 300-500 watts , even if its an ECM motor. So grid you have to factor all these in for sure. A furnace blower would take too much power.

 

[sloeffle]

I've read about and seen videos of the DS Stoves Energy Max 160. I like the fact it's a dual fuel non-electric furnace that burns wood logs and coal and can heat water throughout the house in a thermosyphon system and be connected to a hydronic system for floor and base heating and it's placed indoors and not have to go outside to feed/tend to it. Are there any non-electric stoves/furnaces/boilers superior to that for burn times and efficiency with similar features that is a "set it and forget it" with those 48+ hour burn times if that's possible ?

48+ burn times , if you are in Florida. That's a bunch of marketing BS. My vote is for what @PassionForFire&Water said.



.

 

[AILDWarrior]

Sure
Roof system has R120 in 75% of the roof at a 12-12 pitch, shed dormers are around R 90
Quad pane windows, basement is R 20 walls

R120 is insane! How is your roof constructed to pull that off? Truss/scissor truss or rafter? Closed-cell spray?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I imagine it’s closed cell foam. I guess you could do it with cellulose, but that’d be giving up 36” to insulation.

 

[salecker]

R120 is insane! How is your roof constructed to pull that off? Truss/scissor truss or rafter? Closed-cell spray?

Parallel cord trusses 12/12 pitch roof

 

[salecker]

I imagine it’s closed cell foam. I guess you could do it with cellulose, but that’d be giving up 36” to insulation.

Fiberglass bats of insulation, i insulated it myself during a very warm spell in the summer
It sucked as a job to do, but at least i know it was done right

 

[stoveliker]

Nothing better than doing that yourself indeed.
My attic has R58 fiberglass (not sure what new homes have, but mine had R19), which is unheard of here in Long Island, and has (I claim...) the best air sealing.
Took 6 weekends of 2 days of 10-12 hrs each up there (low pitch roof makes for hard work near the outside walls).
But as Salecker says: at least you know how it was done, and that it was done right.
And you save a ton of money doing it yourself.

 

[salecker]

I imagine it’s closed cell foam. I guess you could do it with cellulose, but that’d be giving up 36” to insulation.

I did price out spray foam
at the time 12 years ago it would have been over 25K the batt insulation was about 5K

 

[EatenByLimestone]

there are lots of trips with the foam as you can only put a few inches down at a time. It does a really good job at air sealing though!

 

[salecker]

watching my lines and tanks get spray foamed made me realize that the quality of the job is defiantly determined by the person doing the spraying