General Fire Advice for a Newcomer...

[johnblacksox]

I'm totally new to wood burning. My old conventional fireplace used to smoke terribly, due to a crooked flue, local downdraft off a mountain, chimney on the north outside of the house, etc. So I got a Lopi large woodburning fireplace insert installed this year. I got a cord of seasoned firewood delivered, and I've made about 20 fires so far this season, with good luck, easy starting, no problems at all, no smoking, etc. I love it so far, but I don't really know what I'm doing, so hoping to get some general advice here.

I do not use this insert for heating, it's 99% for ambiance. I love to sit in the living room and watch the fire at night. If it's not completely efficient, I don't care, as long as I'm not doing anything dangerous in terms of overheating or creosote build up. So feel free to critique or give me advice...

I build the fire, and once it is hot, I close the top damper, which from what I understand helps the secondary burn. When the fire gets really hot, I close the bottom damper (air intake) about halfway. I have found that if I close the air intake all the way, the fire burns, but without flames. Again, I like to see open flames in the stove for ambiance. Once it's burning hot, I usually add one log at time, sometimes two, every 30-45 minutes or so.

What I'm not sure about is the proper operating temperature. This Lopi stove has a built in digital thermometer, and I have it in my head that I should keep the temp around 800-ish or below at the maximum. Most of the time, my stove reads 700-something. The most it's been is in the mid 800s, I don't think I ever got it to the 900s, because I feel like that is "too hot". Is that true? Is it dangerous if it gets above 900?

And is that all reasonable? I know it's not maximum efficiency, but I just want a pleasant looking warm fire for 3-4 hours on a winter night. I should say that the stove throws a lot of heat when the fan is going, and it keeps the house warmer than I expected.

When I go to bed, I open the top flue all the way, and the bottom air intake all the way so it burns out quickly.

Thanks in advance!

 

[gthomas785]

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you're off to a good start. Couple of things to mention...

1. Nothing you can do about it this year, but "seasoned wood" from a wood supplier is rarely actually down to the optimal moisture content. It's good if you can store your wood in stacks and under cover for a minimum of 1 year, 2 is better, before burning. Think about that for next season.

2. Instead of adding one log at a time, try adding several pieces, let it catch with the air fully open and then gradually turn down the air. You don't have to turn it all the way down. At some point the temperature will even out and you can let it cruise for hours without adding wood. You should still see flames in the box. Burn it down until there's a bed of glowing embers, then spread out the embers and repeat if you want to.

3. As far as temps, you have the right idea but it depends on the stove. I wouldn't push my stove much hotter than 700-800F ever. Typically I run more in the 500-600 degree range depending on how cold it is.
If you got 900F or hotter briefly that is probably not serious, but extended time at those temperatures will damage your stove and liner, and is a fire hazard.

4. You don't have to open the damper before you go to bed. As long as the fire isn't choked out and smoldering, you can just leave it to die out. That will give you a bit more even heat through the night.

As you spend more time trying different things, you will figure out what makes your stove perform optimally. Happy burning!

 

[agonyzhou]

Again, I like to see open flames in the stove for ambiance. Once it's burning hot, I usually add one log at time, sometimes two, every 30-45 minutes or so.

You are doing fine. I would only open the door when flame is out to avoid smoke rolling out. add more wood each time, try to make the cycle longer than 1.5 ~ 2 hours.

 

[johnblacksox]

Question about high temperatures...

Tonight

3. As far as temps, you have the right idea but it depends on the stove. I wouldn't push my stove much hotter than 700-800F ever. Typically I run more in the 500-600 degree range depending on how cold it is.
If you got 900F or hotter briefly that is probably not serious, but extended time at those temperatures will damage your stove and liner, and is a fire hazard.

Thanks for the comments...

Question about high temps...(again, this is a Lopi large fireplace insert)

Tonight, it was after about 4-5 hours of burning wood, so the firebox and coals were already quite hot. I had one large log left burning that was cherry red, and the rest was coals. I added two fairly large logs. They ignited immediately in the hot stove into full flames, and about 10-15 minutes later, I realized the fire was getting really hot.

I checked the temperature on the digital thermometer, and it read 1150. I was like, holy crap, and I immediately cut off some air on the bottom air intake. It had been about halfway closed, and I closed it further (but not all the way closed because that usually kills all of the flames, and the logs just smolder without any flame). The fire immediately died back, and within 5 minutes or so, the temperature was under 1000.

No portion of the stove was glowing red at any time, by the way. I could just feel that the radiant heat was hotter than usual.

So my question is, how dangerous is that scenario? It was over 1000 for probably about 10-15 minutes. Is it like, once in a while, it's ok, as long as I get it back down fairly quickly? Or is it like an emergency situation every time?

Also, what's the best thing to do if I realize the fire has gotten too hot? Obviously, cut off the bottom air intake. But should I also have opened the top flue vent to let that hot air go straight up the flue? I notice that that also cools down the temp pretty quickly.

Thanks again for any advice!

 

[FPX Dude]

Scary, yah, best thing is open top flue and let it go up the flue. It makes a good lesson of how much to put on a bed of coals, you won't forget it.

 

[fvhowler]

Start closing down the primary air sooner to avoid the high temps. These EPA stoves are fine tuned and require the user to monitor and to adjust air flow accordingly. You burn and learn...it takes awhile to learn the stove and how it burns but also keep in mind wood (fuel) also varies with moisture content and type of wood (oak vs pine, etc...). Great questions and you obviously want to be very careful while burning. I know you're looking for ambiance but heat is a wonderful by-product of a wood burning stove. Enjoy.

 

[JimH15]

Is this the Hybrid version of the stove with the catalyst? I'm going to be having the medium version of this stove installed next month. But my understanding is the cat temperature can be above 1000 degrees without issue. If it is the non-catalytic (Next-Gen) version than that is a different story.

 

[gthomas785]

Question about high temperatures...

Tonight


Thanks for the comments...

Question about high temps...(again, this is a Lopi large fireplace insert)

Tonight, it was after about 4-5 hours of burning wood, so the firebox and coals were already quite hot. I had one large log left burning that was cherry red, and the rest was coals. I added two fairly large logs. They ignited immediately in the hot stove into full flames, and about 10-15 minutes later, I realized the fire was getting really hot.

I checked the temperature on the digital thermometer, and it read 1150. I was like, holy crap, and I immediately cut off some air on the bottom air intake. It had been about halfway closed, and I closed it further (but not all the way closed because that usually kills all of the flames, and the logs just smolder without any flame). The fire immediately died back, and within 5 minutes or so, the temperature was under 1000.

No portion of the stove was glowing red at any time, by the way. I could just feel that the radiant heat was hotter than usual.

So my question is, how dangerous is that scenario? It was over 1000 for probably about 10-15 minutes. Is it like, once in a while, it's ok, as long as I get it back down fairly quickly? Or is it like an emergency situation every time?

Also, what's the best thing to do if I realize the fire has gotten too hot? Obviously, cut off the bottom air intake. But should I also have opened the top flue vent to let that hot air go straight up the flue? I notice that that also cools down the temp pretty quickly.

Thanks again for any advice!

Without knowing exactly where the temperature is being measured it's hard to say. 1150 on the outside of the stove is way too hot. But if it's measured inside somewhere that could be more reasonable. Anyway if you see that just cut the air back, and try to remember what you did so you don't do it again

 

[johnblacksox]

Yeah, now that you mention it, I'm not sure where the temp is being measured.

Again, I have a Lopi woodburning insert. It does NOT have a catalytic converter, but it does have "secondary burn", where I have those tubes with holes inside the top of the top of the firebox. My understanding is when I close off the main flue, the output gases go through those secondary burn tubes before going up the chimney.

The stove came with a digital thermometer "Travis Industries Catalyst Monitor", attached to the bottom of the stove by a thin black cable. So since I don't have a catalyst, where exactly is the temperature that this is monitoring? I'm guessing now that it must be monitoring the temp of the secondary combustion, so maybe reaching 1100 F isn't unreasonable or dangerous?

I notice that the temp on this thermometer goes down quickly when I open up the flue, so I'm assuming that this is not the stove pipe temperature. Could it be the temp inside the top of the stove, where the secondary burn would take place?

I read online somewhere secondary burn occurs at 1100 F and above. If I have three average split logs burning with wide open air intake, the temp easily gets to 800-900, and it's hard to keep it lower than that without the fire smoldering. The hottest I've ever seen after like 20+ fires was 1100ish, when I had three good size logs fully engulfed in flames in a hot firebox. But at that temp, nothing was glowing red inside the stove.

I don't really care about burning wood most efficiently. My main concern is that it is safe, and after that, I like a hot fire with visible flames for ambiance. So I need to figure out if this 1100 F reading is dangerous, or if it's beneficial for secondary combustion at that temp.

 

[kennyp2339]

So I need to figure out if this 1100 F reading is dangerous, or if it's beneficial for secondary combustion at that temp.

Dangerous temp if the thermometer is taking the reading on the outside of the stove, a little to warm is the temps is taken as a flue probe, prob close to just right if the temp is being taken above the baffle after the secondary burn.

 

[savageactor7]

johnblacksox...

...You burn like I do, 1 or 2 splits at a time. Good to hear you enjoy your wood burning experience just the way it is.

Merry Christmas to all.

 

[begreen]

Yeah, now that you mention it, I'm not sure where the temp is being measured.

Again, I have a Lopi woodburning insert. It does NOT have a catalytic converter, but it does have "secondary burn", where I have those tubes with holes inside the top of the top of the firebox. My understanding is when I close off the main flue, the output gases go through those secondary burn tubes before going up the chimney.

The stove came with a digital thermometer "Travis Industries Catalyst Monitor", attached to the bottom of the stove by a thin black cable. So since I don't have a catalyst, where exactly is the temperature that this is monitoring? I'm guessing now that it must be monitoring the temp of the secondary combustion, so maybe reaching 1100 F isn't unreasonable or dangerous?

I notice that the temp on this thermometer goes down quickly when I open up the flue, so I'm assuming that this is not the stove pipe temperature. Could it be the temp inside the top of the stove, where the secondary burn would take place?

I read online somewhere secondary burn occurs at 1100 F and above. If I have three average split logs burning with wide open air intake, the temp easily gets to 800-900, and it's hard to keep it lower than that without the fire smoldering. The hottest I've ever seen after like 20+ fires was 1100ish, when I had three good size logs fully engulfed in flames in a hot firebox. But at that temp, nothing was glowing red inside the stove.

I don't really care about burning wood most efficiently. My main concern is that it is safe, and after that, I like a hot fire with visible flames for ambiance. So I need to figure out if this 1100 F reading is dangerous, or if it's beneficial for secondary combustion at that temp.

There is some misunderstanding here.
No, the smoke never goes through the secondary tubes on a non-cat. The secondary tubes inject air at the top of the firebox to mix with the unburnt wood gases and ignite them for more complete combustion.
You can't really monitor the temps at the top of the firebox without built-in high temp probes. That is stuff for the lab and not the home. When secondary combustion is visually evident the fire is hot enough.

But if your stove is the Lopi Large HYBRID insert then in addition to the secondary tubes, your stove also has a catalyst. That is what the catalyst thermometer is reading. Catalyst temps are different from stove temps and almost always will be higher than the insert temperature. That is the nature of the catalyst. The active range for a cat is 500-1500º. It is not overfiring the stove to see a catalyst temperature of 1100º.

Have you read your manual? A lot of this information is described in it. One or two logs at a time is not the best way to run this insert.

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[johnblacksox]

There is some misunderstanding here.

But if your stove is the Lopi Large HYBRID insert then in addition to the secondary tubes, your stove also has a catalyst. That is what the catalyst thermometer is reading. Catalyst temps are different from stove temps and almost always will be higher than the insert temperature. That is the nature of the catalyst. The active range for a cat is 500-1500º. It is not overfiring the stove to see a catalyst temperature of 1100º.

Have you read your manual? A lot of this information is described in it. One or two logs at a time is not the best way to run this insert.

Yes, you are correct. I just looked more closely inside the stove, and I do in fact have a catalyst, "Hybrid-Fyre". I could have sworn when I bought the stove, I chose a model without one. The catalyst seemed like an extra level of maintenance that I didn't want to worry about.

So that explains a lot. I did read the manual, but it says nothing about max temps. All it says is to have the fire over 500 for the catalyst to work, and it says not to overfire the stove, but it says nothing about optimum or safe temperatures, which is frustrating. My fire is always over 500, so that is no problem. The hottest I ever got the thermometer was 1100ish.

So now I have more questions...

As long as I keep the temp below 1500, I should be good? I wouldn't get that close. 1100ish was about as hot as I was comfortable with.

How does service of the catalyst work? How often do I need to have it checked, or replaced? The manual just gives advice on vacuuming it. Is a catalyst just an extra pain in the butt? Or should I be happy that I have it?

And lastly, you say adding a couple logs at a time isn't the best way to operate the stove. What is the best way? The manual doesn't give any practical advice on that. If I want it mostly for ambiance, is it ok to load a couple logs at a time, as long as I keep the temps over 500? I'm not trying to maximize efficiency, it's mostly for pleasant warmth and ambiance.

Thanks everyone for your assistance and comments, I'm still learning about this...

 

[begreen]

So that explains a lot. I did read the manual, but it says nothing about max temps. All it says is to have the fire over 500 for the catalyst to work, and it says not to overfire the stove, but it says nothing about optimum or safe temperatures, which is frustrating. My fire is always over 500, so that is no problem. The hottest I ever got the thermometer was 1100ish.

That is not the fire temperature or the stove temperature, it's the temperature of the catalytic converter. Its normal active range is 500 to 1500º. You are fine running it around 1100º.