Germany generated 90% of its power from renewables

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begreen

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begreen

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Not at all. As the graph in the article shows. At several times on Sunday renewables provided the bulk of Germany's power needs. The wiki article lists their generating capacity. Not all sources are online at once.
jeremygraph1-740x327.jpg
 

Highbeam

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I also have to wonder if the increase in GDP that occurred was caused by the increase in renewables or was it the increased GDP that allowed for this luxury spending.
 

begreen

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Hardly luxury spending when you are building a transitional infrastructure. It certainly isn't hurting their bottom line one bit. Instead it appears to be improving it, as was predicted.
 
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Highbeam

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It certainly isn't hurting their bottom line one bit. Instead it appears to be improving it, as was predicted.
I see no link between their spending (luxury or not) on renewables and their GDP. Just because both went up at the same time does not mean one caused the other. I could just as easily say that despite wasting money on renewable infrastructure the germans had such a good year that they still increased their GDP.
 

begreen

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You could be correct. It may be an indirect result. The article doesn't say there is a direct correlation. It indicates that in spite of booming economy that renewables are keeping pace with its growth.
"Germany is the fourth-largest economy on the planet. Germany’s $3.7 trillion GDP beats the economic output of any other country in Europe or, for that matter, any U.S. state. Sunday’s spike in renewable output shows that wind and solar can keep pace with the demands of an economic powerhouse. What’s more, the growth of clean energy has tracked the growth of Germany’s economy."

Their success appears to be the result of investing deeply in capital and human improvements. Germany's exports match China's. The other component of transitioning a system to renewables is jobs. Looks like that is also happening in the US.
http://fortune.com/2016/04/20/solar-oil-jobs-indeed/?xid=for_fb_sh
 
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jatoxico

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I see no link between their spending (luxury or not) on renewables and their GDP. Just because both went up at the same time does not mean one caused the other. I could just as easily say that despite wasting money on renewable infrastructure the germans had such a good year that they still increased their GDP.
The increase has been pretty much pacing GDP for a number of years so to me it does not seem to hurting.
 

sportbikerider78

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Jun 23, 2014
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I see no link between their spending (luxury or not) on renewables and their GDP. Just because both went up at the same time does not mean one caused the other. I could just as easily say that despite wasting money on renewable infrastructure the germans had such a good year that they still increased their GDP.
Exactly. Statistics can be manipulated to show anything, but this author didn't even try. When you are comparing two distributions of data, you need a correlation to show the level of connection between two data sets. It is absolutely meaningless to show two charts that go up.

Very simple..statistics 101.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_and_dependence
 

begreen

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The author and article specifically is showing that building renewable infrastructure to keep pace with growth does not mean it will hurt the economy. It debunks a common argument put out by the fossil fuel industry. Nothing more.

Screen Shot 2016-05-11 at 9.12.44 AM.png
 
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sportbikerider78

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Jun 23, 2014
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Saratoga, NY
Again..no it doesn't debunk anything.
The higher taxes are the higher the GDP is. So if you were taxing to give a subsidy to renewables, it would make your GDP increase. Even if you remove the subsidy from the GDP calculation, you are still adding much of it back into the equation from taxing production, manufacturing, wages...ect....
This is the economic model equivalent of plugging a power strip into itself for more power.
 

begreen

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The correlation between taxes and GDP is chaotic and not the point of the article at all.
http://www.nber.org/digest/mar08/w13264.html
But this correlation almost surely does not reflect a positive effect of tax increases ... tax increase of 1 percent of GDP lowers real GDP by roughly 2 to 3 percent.
 

Highbeam

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Dec 28, 2006
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The author and article specifically is showing that building renewable infrastructure to keep pace with growth does not mean it will hurt the economy.
It's not showing any correlation at all. The only thing it shows is that renewable investment went up and, oh BTW, so did GDP. Correlation does not equal causation.

Further, you can propose that GDP would have been higher had money not been spent on renewables. GDP would have grown much more had it not been for that other thing.
 

begreen

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There is no correlation claimed. As previously stated to me it is showing that the negative causation propounded by the fossil fuel industry is baseless.
 

begreen

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Note that I said - to me, in the full sentence. The point is moot. The article is about the amount of renewable energy generated. The author does not try to make this correlation, the graphic came from another site. It was probably added by the art dept.. If curious about correlation, look up the site where the graphic originated. Looks like renewable energy is also producing many jobs, efficient product sales and business opportunities.
http://energytransition.de/2012/10/1-iii-stimulating-technology-innovation-and-the-green-economy/
 
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Seasoned Oak

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They could easily make up the rest with efficiency.
 

begreen

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Conservation and decreasing consumption is part of the national program.
 

Seasoned Oak

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Eastern Central PA
Imagine what we could do with the interest we squander on the national debt. about the same as the defense budget. We could do the same thing.
 
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