Getting closer...looks like Jotul vs. Hearthstone...

[DetroitReds]

Wow, I've learned so much since I started reading this forum! About 4 years ago, I started thinking we could fit an insert into our existing fireplace; took a while to find out it wouldn't work without extensive/expensive/impossible masonry and other work. Happy to have settled on a freestanding wood stove on the hearth in front and think I've found a good installer to make it happen. Now, getting closer to figuring out our stove options.

Starting with the house:
- SE Michigan, plan to heat as much as possible, esp this winter where we plan to be at home quite a bit . Have reasonable access to firewood for purchase this season, and plan to cut my own in the future. We do spend a lot of time in living room and surrounds, but also don't want to get blasted out from the heat.
- 2 story victorian (?), built 1913, fairly drafty but has lots of character. Chimney run is about 35'. My installer says the game plan is to put in 7" ovalized insulated liner. I only want a rear venting stove to connect through the fireplace w/ block off plate. Lintel height is 31". Hearth pad likely needs to get extended, and maybe a heat shield underneath existing mantel (55" from floor).
- Main living room space is 16'x22', kitchen at ~12'x15' and dining room at ~15'x15' on the first floor. See very rough floor plan. Four small bedrooms on second floor, square footage is listed at 1600 sq ft but I think that includes the unfinished attic (have never figured that out).


Stoves: shoulda bought before May is what I'm coming to understand. Limited to shorter rear-vent options. Current runners are Jotul F45 ($3k+), F500 ($5k), Hearthstone Castleton ($3k give or take on website, but installer isn't dealer). Interested in the Hearthstone Shelburne but price not listed on website leads me to assume its not approved yet? I also have a lead on a Jotul F3 for what looks like a good deal (brand new, $1100), but a long drive. Perhaps the F3 is just too small? Woodstock stoves have been ruled out for their looks, unfortunately (not by me).
- I truly am having a hard time deciding what level of functionality we want. Like most of you, I look forward to learning how to get the best burn out of stove, but still don't know about the benefits of cat/non-cat, soapstone, other technologies, etc. Hard to figure out what's important.
- Is it reasonable to have a concern about buying from a separate dealer than who will be handling the install, in terms of warranty and who to call if there are any issues?
- Any other issues I may not have thought of to verify with my installer?
Thank you

 

[begreen]

I would probably opt for the F45 or F55 with short legs. These are simpler stoves that should be low maintenance throughout their lifespan. The best way to remove anxiety about the installation is to have the whole install detailed on the proposal. Will the liner be insulated? (it should be). Will an insulated block-off plate be installed in the damper area? What liner are they installing? Top plate details?

 

[DetroitReds]

Thanks for your input. Would you say the height of the chimney and factor of rear venting on the draft would influence my choice? Like most folks, I would hope for an overnight burn.

Here's the install plan, minus price of stove. I was told it's a bit of a complicated job b/c they can't pull their tow-behind lift next to chimney because there's not enough space between the house. So they have` to set up on the roof.

-------------------LINER: INSERT 7" OVAL 316TI ( WRAP )
• Obtain required mechanical permit
· Protect carpeting/flooring from door to work area inside home
• Cut through damper frame and remove damper plate and upper portion of back wall to allow for liner and insulation
passage.
· Remove any existing obstructions from the chimney and premise as needed for liner and insulation passage
· Reline with a fully insulated 7” liner, factory ovalized stainless steel lining from thimble to the top of the chimney flue
• Install lifetime warranty rain / Animal guard with spark arrestor listed for use with lining system.
· Install stainless steel ovalized 7” tee, with 6” diameter take off for appliance connection, into the new lining
• Install steel studs to the opening of the fireplace, to secure and support tee and secure a block off plate
· Install a steel plate over fireplace opening, painted black
• Install a black steel stovepipe trim collar around pipe penetration hole over backer plate
· Job site cleanup

 

[xman23]

If your going to have a stove store do the installation get a date now. They get fully booked up.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for your input. Would you say the height of the chimney and factor of rear venting on the draft would influence my choice? Like most folks, I would hope for an overnight burn.

Here's the install plan, minus price of stove. I was told it's a bit of a complicated job b/c they can't pull their tow-behind lift next to chimney because there's not enough space between the house. So they have` to set up on the roof.

-------------------LINER: INSERT 7" OVAL 316TI ( WRAP )
• Obtain required mechanical permit
· Protect carpeting/flooring from door to work area inside home
• Cut through damper frame and remove damper plate and upper portion of back wall to allow for liner and insulation
passage.
· Remove any existing obstructions from the chimney and premise as needed for liner and insulation passage
· Reline with a fully insulated 7” liner, factory ovalized stainless steel lining from thimble to the top of the chimney flue
• Install lifetime warranty rain / Animal guard with spark arrestor listed for use with lining system.
· Install stainless steel ovalized 7” tee, with 6” diameter take off for appliance connection, into the new lining
• Install steel studs to the opening of the fireplace, to secure and support tee and secure a block off plate
· Install a steel plate over fireplace opening, painted black
• Install a black steel stovepipe trim collar around pipe penetration hole over backer plate
· Job site cleanup

That sounds like a pretty thorough quote.
I wonder how you will clean the liner and tee though. Will the plate covering the fireplace opening be easily removable? Personally I think I would do without that option for a couple of reasons. One for easier cleaning and two because a damper might need to be installed in the tee connecting pipe if the draft proves to be too strong.

 

[DetroitReds]

Well, as a step towards making our decision I made a crude mockup of the F45 and F500 this weekend to see how their footprints would fit in our living room. The short of it is they both look quite large (of course, we'll be rearranging a bit). The F45 in particular really takes up space because it is so deep (yes, I plan to extend the hearth protection). These factors are making me lean heavily towards a smaller stove that has no chance for a long burn. But will still probably heat the lower floor just fine, I should hope. Hearthstone Castleton, Shelburne, or maybe one of the Green Mountain options? I will be looking hard at the Woodstock options again based on their footprint.




F45

 

[kennyp2339]

With your shorter ceiling the smaller stove should work just fine, you dont want to heat yourself out of the room either

 

[begreen]

The tough thing is that many past options are not being sold now with the 2020 regs. A Hampton H300 would have been a nice choice. Is moving the couch back another foot an option?

 

[rosem]

Have you looked at the Greenmountain 60? I haven't heard much about them yet, but I was between that and the Jotul F55. The Greenmountain is way less deep (21" total, body is like 18") and only 5" to the wall. The soapstone might be better for such a tight space too. I really like the look of it, but I went bigger with the F55 because we were able to put it in a centrally located room that we're not in all the time (just off of the living room).

 

[begreen]

I think the Green Mountain is top vent only.

 

[rosem]

I think the Green Mountain is top vent only.

Ah, good point

 

[DetroitReds]

The tough thing is that many past options are not being sold now with the 2020 regs. A Hampton H300 would have been a nice choice. Is moving the couch back another foot an option?

Yes, we'll be moving the couch back (as well as the chairs). Question regarding rear clearances: I assume the brick counts as a non-combustible surface, is that correct? Even though it's painted? As in, do I need to heed rear clearances or can it be as close as possible to the wall? The plan still is to mount a steel block off plate covering fireplace. Trying to figure out how far to extend the hearth, and how far into the room anything will sit. Looking closely at Woodstock catalytic options (but probably not the Progress due to size).

 

[begreen]

The Progress is worth considering. Your room has large openings to the adjacent spaces. With a properly placed fan, I think a nice circular convection flow can be established to include all rooms. What is important is the range of control.

 

[DetroitReds]

The progress has been considered, but rejected by my wife. Oh well, at least it streamlines that decision. We do both like the Hearthstone Heritage, so it's looking promising.

Here's a Q about rear clearances: looking at the manual I think I'm looking at (A) direct rear exit, double wall pipe giving us 6" w/ heat shield (18" w/o).

Figure 4 Chimney Connector Clearances Single Wall Pipe
Double Wall Pipe
With Heat Shield**
6”/15cm 8”/21cm
Without Heat Shield**
18”/46cm 20”/51cm

Trying to figure out how that corresponds to mantle protections. Our mantel is 55" (52.5" actually for trim piece) with a 7" depth - above the 48" clearance shown here. But I don't understand the "max depth" mantle projection, and how it has to align with 'B dimension' (assuming 6" w/ heat shield). Can we just use 6" of double-wall for the rear vent and be fine with the mantel as is? Basically, back edge of stove would still be a hair "under" the mantel....or are they trying to make sure that you're off the wall beyond the depth of the mantel?