Getting my Summit to perform better

[PistolPeets]

I'm still trying to find the most efficient way to run my Summit insert. I've been playing with the air controls, trying to find the best way to get the most heat while using less wood and trying to keep temperatures safe. Still learning every day. The stove manual isn't much help and I'm not exactly sure what to look for in the fire. Would be nice to have a good tutorial on my particular stove.

 

[begreen]

There are many threads here on running the Summit. Look up some of Hogwildz posts on the Summit insert. Basically you get the fire going well and then incrementally close down the air, say 50% at a time, just until the flames get lazy, then let the fire regain strength, and turn it down again. Most Summits with good draft can be turned down almost all the way (80-90% closed) during shoulder season and all the way during colder weather when the draft is stronger.

Have you seen this video?

 

[PistolPeets]

There are many threads here on running the Summit. Look up some of Hogwildz posts on the Summit insert. Basically you get the fire going well and then incrementally close down the air, say 50% at a time, just until the flames get lazy, then let the fire regain strength, and turn it down again. Most Summits with good draft can be turned down almost all the way (80-90% closed) during shoulder season and all the way during colder weather when the draft is stronger.

Have you seen this video?

Thanks for the info. I'll have to dig a little deeper on here then and try to find some of these threads. I have seen that video a while back

 

[PistolPeets]

Well, I've been experimenting today with turning the air control down much more than I have been previously. The result to this point has been less heat output in the house, lower flue temps and more smoke from the chimney. The burns have been lasting much longer though than my previous method of controlling where I would have the air control about 3/4 closed for most of the burn resulting in more flames, but higher temps with no visible smoke from the chimney. I've also noticed coals that don't want to burn completely down. Maybe my stove is a little temperamental?

 

[begreen]

Maybe the wood is not fully seasoned? If so you will have to run with the air open a little bit more so that there is no smoke.

 

[PistolPeets]

I've been using a mix of mystery wood that came with my new house and some ash I bought off a friend yesterday. He said the ash is 2 or 3 years seasoned (which I've heard is plenty). Split one apart and tested with a moisture meter - tested at 12.5%. Wood is definitely dry. I'm a little stumped on why there's not a lot of heat output and more smoke! I'm not sure if my stove is EPA certified. It has a removable baffle plate on the top with holes in it. I get good secondaries during the entire burn. I just seem to have to run with more air to get the heat and no smoke.

 

[PistolPeets]

More air going into the stove and up the pipe means more cold outside air being pulled into your house to replace it.

I don't think I exactly follow you. What is the relation between air entering the stove vs air entering the house? The house is well insulated. Primary heat source is electric baseboard and the bills are extremely low. Home is about 1200 sq. ft. We had a 20 degree day last week and running the stove with more air resulting in me being able to heat the house to around 75. We've been around 10 and 0 the past couple of days though.

 

[begreen]

pistolpete, your issue really needs a separate thread. This one is more about theory and not about getting your Summit working well. I am going to move your posts to a new thread for you.

 

[begreen]

@PistolPeets do you know what year was your Summit made? How tall is the liner that's connected to the stove?

 

[blacktail]

I don't think I exactly follow you. What is the relation between air entering the stove vs air entering the house?

(Assuming you don't have an outside air kit that plumbs outside air directly to your stove...)
Air from your house is entering the stove, making fire, and exiting your house through the pipe as exhaust. It's not like you can remove all the air from your house this way and be left with no more air inside. The air that leaves your house is replaced with air from outside. Your house isn't air tight, so outside air is sucked in through whatever tiny openings it can find.

 

[blacktail]

Having your stove's air turned down 75% might be the setting that gives you the most heat. All stove setups, loads of wood, and daily weather conditions are different. I very rarely can turn my air down all the way. Turned down somewhere around 75-90% is pretty normal.

 

[begreen]

Having your stove's air turned down 75% might be the setting that gives you the most heat. All stove setups, loads of wood, and daily weather conditions are different. I very rarely can turn my air down all the way. Turned down somewhere around 75-90% is pretty normal.

Yes, different flue setups, wood, etc. affect where the optimum setting will be. Near negative room pressure can also affect this. And if this was a used stove the outside air plate may be in place.

 

[PistolPeets]

@PistolPeets do you know what year was your Summit made? How tall is the liner that's connected to the stove?

I don't know what year the Summit was made. Came with my house that was built in the mid 70's. It's a single story ranch home, so I would assume around 15' or so? Never measured, but I've used a SootEater a couple of months ago and the combined length of all the connected pieces are 18' and I had one piece left out. Lengths are 3ft each

 

[PistolPeets]

(Assuming you don't have an outside air kit that plumbs outside air directly to your stove...)
Air from your house is entering the stove, making fire, and exiting your house through the pipe as exhaust. It's not like you can remove all the air from your house this way and be left with no more air inside. The air that leaves your house is replaced with air from outside. Your house isn't air tight, so outside air is sucked in through whatever tiny openings it can find.

I don't have an OAK. That makes more sense to me. What is the solution to this?

Having your stove's air turned down 75% might be the setting that gives you the most heat. All stove setups, loads of wood, and daily weather conditions are different. I very rarely can turn my air down all the way. Turned down somewhere around 75-90% is pretty normal.

That's good to hear - BeGreen stated that some reported operation of the Summit has the operator turning down the air 80%-90% and even fully closed during the coldest days. I tried that yesterday with my stove and had less heat output (but longer burns and incomplete burning of coals), very lazy flames with mostly blueish secondaries and lots of smoke out the chimney. Prior to reading this, I was running around 70% closed with much more active flames and more heat output - along with no smoke in chimney.

 

[Hogwildz]

Don't mistake the want to see active flames as an indicator of burn. These stoves are meant to burn mostly from the top down. What temp are you cutting the air back at? It may just be a matter of letting it get a little higher in temp before cutting the air down. It also be in your case, that you don't need to cut the air all the way back to get your best burn. Some of us must cut the air all the way back, of course with 27' of stack here, that plays a big role in when & where I cut the air back to.

I can have glowing splits, but most of the flame will be at the secondaries in the first and middle stages of the burn. With some lazy flames at the bottom. There will also be some flames coming out of the boost manifold during the beginning of the burn when the air is cut back.

 

[begreen]

If this is an older Summit insert there should be a 4" room air knockout on the (left?) side of the insert. If the insert is not using an outside air supply, make sure that has been removed. @Hogwildz can you verify this on the left side of the insert?

 

[Hogwildz]

If this is an older Summit insert there should be a 4" room air knockout on the (left?) side of the insert. If the insert is not using an outside air supply, make sure that has been removed. @Hogwildz can you verify this on the left side of the insert?

Yes, Left side if you are standing in front of the insert looking straight at it. Will be in the outer gray side casing panel. towards bottom

 

[PistolPeets]

Don't mistake the want to see active flames as an indicator of burn. These stoves are meant to burn mostly from the top down. What temp are you cutting the air back at? It may just be a matter of letting it get a little higher in temp before cutting the air down. It also be in your case, that you don't need to cut the air all the way back to get your best burn. Some of us must cut the air all the way back, of course with 27' of stack here, that plays a big role in when & where I cut the air back to.

I can have glowing splits, but most of the flame will be at the secondaries in the first and middle stages of the burn. With some lazy flames at the bottom. There will also be some flames coming out of the boost manifold during the beginning of the burn when the air is cut back.

I cut the air back around 300, but it immediately slows the climb. I only load about 3 splits per load. I'm still learning the stove and haven't really loaded it full yet. How much do you guys typically add? It seems that when I cut the air way back, I'll get very lazy flames or no flames on the wood at all, and some rolling secondaries. Lately, once the wood is down to coals, they aren't burning down to ash completely like when I first started running the stove with mystery wood. I typically have charcoal briquette sized charred black pieces left in the morning. So the result of me cutting the air back so far has been lower temps, longer burn times (although not as complete) and visible smoke from the chimney. I'd like to be as efficient as possible though. I think I still have a lot to learn!

As far as the knock out on the left side, I genuinely don't know how to remove the stove surround and the manual I found differs from my setup.

 

[begreen]

3 splits is not much of a fuel load. It's hard to run the stove well with that little wood. The firebox barely gets hot enough.

Next fire try at least 6 and preferably 8 medium sized (4+") splits. I normally load the stove full except when the weather is mild. That can be anywhere from 6-10 splits depending on their size. I load some pretty large pieces in sometimes if I have them. They are good for extending burn time.

I'm not sure about the age of your Summit, but if it's a Summit A, the manual is attached.

 

[PistolPeets]

Thank you for that attachment. That looks more like what I've got for a surround. I worry about an overtemp condition. I think tomorrow morning I'll try loading 4 or 5 pieces and see where that gets me, then increase the loads from there.

 

[Hogwildz]

You may want to try and let it get up to 400ish and cut the air back, 450 etc. Experiment more to find the spot that works best for your set up. 3 splits is at best 1/3 to 1/2 a full load, depending on split size. If the mystery wood burned better, and now the new wood is giving issues, that tells you there may be a moisture problem with the new wood.
Don't be afraid to load it up. I load 2x per day, full loads. As long as it fits in, you're good, and you may find hotter burns with fuller loads.
Those size charcoals are either not high enough burn temps, moist wood or both. Once these stoves get up to temp, they run themselves pretty much. You just have to find what gets the load over the hump, and cruising without fiddling with it.

You may not have to take the surround off to get to the knock out. The lower ash lip plate comes off first, then the top plate, then left grille. You may be able to get away without taking the top plate off, it's been a while since I worked on the A body style.

I am attaching a few photos to give you an idea of a full load, or at least what is a full load here.

 

[Hogwildz]

You definitely have an earlier version of the A body. My A body new in 2006 had the wooden handle painted, as all have been since. Your natural wooden handle is an indicator of at least a pre-2006 model.I don't know when they started painting them exactly.

 

[PistolPeets]

Thank you! I'll try to give her a beefier load tomorrow and see how that goes. Then maybe it will all come together! The wood I have is predominately ash, measuring around 12.5% on the moisture meter. Guy I got it from says it's either 2 or 3 years seasoned.

 

[Hogwildz]

Thank you! I'll try to give her a beefier load tomorrow and see how that goes. Then maybe it will all come together! The wood I have is predominately ash, measuring around 12.5% on the moisture meter. Guy I got it from says it's either 2 or 3 years seasoned.

It's only seasoned from the day it has been split. If it was sitting around in poles or rounds, that don't count towards seasoning. 12.5 is great, but hard to fathom, especially due to the swampy summer this year.

 

[PistolPeets]

It was split 2 or 3 years ago. The source was a friend, not some dealer. I split a log and tested with a meter on the fresh split part.