Getting nervous about stove dangers?

[enigmablaze]

I guess it's the mom in me...I hope everyone can understand, I know there are risks with anything, but after looking into various chimney fire posts on this forum and other sites on the subject I am starting to get really concerned that adding a wood burner is more of a risk than we want. My husband is also somewhat hesitant.

I have learned here how burning hardwood, well-seasoned wood, at high temps without damping down too much and having your chimney installed professionally and swept every year by a sweep is all good stuff to help with creosote buildup but even so I am coming across an alarming number of chimney fires specifically even among knowledgeable folks. Of course we would make sure to have proper clearances etc. but our asphalt roof and inability to access what would be the chimney top easily are real concerns to me.

I guess I'm asking, has anyone had a chimney fire even while being very careful? I know sometimes they are loud and obvious and sometimes they are quiet and hard to detect. Are fireplaces less likely to have one than stoves due to the less intense heat (though I understand they would probably build up more creosote)? During a chimney fire it seems the sparks coming out of the pipe (those things are like a rocket booster!) could ignite the roof...has this ever happened to anyone?

Finally, considering installation, is there anything that can help avoid a fire? Does installing the pipe into the top or the back of the stove impact anything? Should the pipe be mostly indoors or is it better to have it mostly outdoors (like running it out the back of the stove through a wall and up the side of the house?).

Thanks for any advice, positive or negative...we just really want to know what we'd be getting into.

 

[begreen]

The risk of a chimney fire is low with a properly run EPA stove. We've never had one in the current installation which is 10 yrs old. The key is to burn dry wood, have a safe and properly installed flue that is insulated and the correct height, and don't smolder the fire.

 

[xman23]

All good concerns, that all of us have had. I'll give you my opinion on some of them. My guess is a old school fireplace is less likely to creosote up, due to not having a method to limit the air and heat flowing up the chimney. I know my dad has never cleaned this fireplace chimney. Of course not a good thing. I can't tell you how many times logs would roll out as well as the popping embers. A screen or doors would have helped. Nothing like this has ever happened with my stove. If after seeing how to clean your stoves chimney I would learn to do it yourself. It will give you a better feeling when you know what the build up is. The stove is perfectly safe if you understand a few basic rules.

 

[Squisher]

I've burned or been in a wood heated home my whole life(42) and I've never had an issue. I can see it being worrisome when just starting out, but just be diligent and monitor temperatures and with a proper install all will be well.

For me I don't stress over it but I never take it lightly.

 

[enigmablaze]

I guess I get most concerned when coming across folks who have had chimney fires when they clean their chimney every month, or knowledgeable employees of stove and fireplace shops having them even with meticulous cleaning...including an entire loss of the home. Why would some seem to just spontaneously happen. Even in some cases two weeks after a new system is installed?!!

I thought they only happened if someone was grossly irresponsible with having their system swept or constantly burning same-day wood or something I guess.

 

[enigmablaze]

My guess is a old school fireplace is less likely to creosote up, due to not having a method to limit the air and heat flowing up the chimney.

Thank you so much, can you tell me what you mean by the above? Do you mean an open, masonry fireplace? Does it not have a damper?

 

[enigmablaze]

The risk of a chimney fire is low with a properly run EPA stove. We've never had one in the current installation which is 10 yrs old. The key is to burn dry wood, have a safe and properly installed flue that is insulated and the correct height, and don't smolder the fire.

Would you recommend a pipe connected to the back or the top of the stove for maximum creosote prevention? Does it make any difference?

 

[bholler]

I guess I get most concerned when coming across folks who have had chimney fires when they clean their chimney every month,

If they are cleaning it every month that is a sign they are doing something very wrong.

I thought they only happened if someone was grossly irresponsible with having their system swept or constantly burning same-day wood or something I guess.

No one does not have to be grosly irresponsible at all. It can happen but the trick is to make sure the fire does not have much fuel for one so proper burning techniques and proper cleaning are the solution to that. And proper installation so if there is a fire in the flue it does not cause a house fire.

Being worried about chimney fires is a good thing that will keep you diligent about proper burning and proper maintenance but dont let it keep you from getting a wood stove if that is what you want.

 

[enigmablaze]

If they are cleaning it every month that is a sign they are doing something very wrong.


No one does not have to be grosly irresponsible at all. It can happen but the trick is to make sure the fire does not have much fuel for one so proper burning techniques and proper cleaning are the solution to that. And proper installation so if there is a fire in the flue it does not cause a house fire.

Being worried about chimney fires is a good thing that will keep you diligent about proper burning and proper maintenance but dont let it keep you from getting a wood stove if that is what you want.

What do you mean if they clean it every months it is a sign they are doing something wrong? Do you mean if there is anything there to clean?

I know we would be very careful about clearances but I am concerned about the roof...if we had a metal roof I would be far less concerned. And even so, starting out...what if we didn't do it properly at first?! I'm just wondering if we'd be so concerned we wouldn't enjoy it

 

[Niko]

Their are always dangers in everything in life. But you already have a sense of safety so keep that and never take it granted. If you get it professionaly installed get multiple quotes and compare them, ask tons of questions and see which place takes the time answering them making you feel comfortable. Dont ever rush into something when you have safety concerns.

What are your concerns that you specifically have in your house?

 

[bholler]

What do you mean if they clean it every months it is a sign they are doing something wrong? Do you mean if there is anything there to clean?

Yes there should be absolutely no reason a chimney should need cleaned every month.by doing so you are wasting your time and causing extra wear on your chimney and equipment. Or you are burning very wet wood or using horrible burning techniques.

And yes a very serious chimney fire could possibly catch the roof on fire but that is very rare and there would have to be allot of fuel in that chimney for that to happen. With proper burning fuel and maintenance the risk of that happening is all but non existent.

 

[enigmablaze]

And yes a very serious chimney fire could possibly catch the roof on fire but that is very rare and there would have to be allot of fuel in that chimney for that to happen. With proper burning fuel and maintenance the risk of that happening is all but non existent.

So you could have a chimney fire with a moderately dirty pipe but if it's not too bad the fire would probably not be very severe? That makes sense.

Is there any type of thermometer that could be placed in/on the chimney pipe in the second story of the house that would alarm or something when getting too hot? That seems something that should have been invented Kinda help identify the "quiet burning" chimney fires or wake you up if you have one while you're sleeping?

 

[bholler]

Is there any type of thermometer that could be placed in/on the chimney pipe in the second story of the house that would alarm or something when getting too hot? That seems something that should have been invented Kinda help identify the "quiet burning" chimney fires or wake you up if you have one while you're sleeping?

There are lots that go on the stove pipe some with remote units to tell you the temp and even alarms on them.

 

[jetsam]

If you're worried about a chimney fire, inspect your flue regularly. If you can't inspect it, run a brush through it regularly.

It's free, and only takes a few minutes.

Good advice even if you're not worried about a chimney fire, honestly.

 

[begreen]

Would you recommend a pipe connected to the back or the top of the stove for maximum creosote prevention? Does it make any difference?

Depends on the stove. In this case the issue often is not creosote, it's smoke spillage. Many rear vented stoves have a wide but shallow firebox. If the chimney is short then rear-venting can lead to smoke spilling out when the door is opened, especially in mild weather. If that is the case then top venting with the same stove can address this issue.

 

[Chim_Chimney]

FWIW, I used to be pretty worried about chimney fires, too, having had to run a stove through a masonry chimney with a bad liner (near the top) for a few months. Nowadays, I still feel a little better having a Chimfex flare, or a bag of that generic chimney fire suppressant powder (available at the box stores) lying around. I haven't needed it yet, but some of the videos on YouTube are encouraging and I'd feel a lot better about suppressing a chimney fire (once detected) using one of those sulfurous oxygen-displacing suppressors rather than just spraying an ABC fire extinguisher up the flue (which I've heard also can help) and hoping the MAP powder reaches the flames.

That's not to say I don't clean my entire flue at least yearly, burn dry wood with plenty of oxygen, and all that good stuff, though! I did find that a good-quality P95 respirator is a necessity during flue cleaning for the DIY-er... our lungs really can't handle finely-ground carbon.

 

[Hogwildz]

The risk of a chimney fire is low with a properly run EPA stove. We've never had one in the current installation which is 10 yrs old. The key is to burn dry wood, have a safe and properly installed flue that is insulated and the correct height, and don't smolder the fire.

& sweep it annually at the very least.

 

[Tar12]

Go with a straight up flue pipe setup with a telescoping connection pipe...this allows you to clean the flue from the bottom up either through the pipe its self or through the stove...no roof top acrobats.Burning dry wood and keeping your chimney clean IMO is very safe heat. Are you opposed to a boiler set up? This would isolate and eliminate any risk of having a house fire.

 

[kennyp2339]

I've been burning wood as my primary heat source for 5 seasons, I've never had an issue with chimney fires or even run away stoves. The key like others mention is to burn dry wood, at a minimum I burn 2 yr old cut / stacked wood, I bought a moisture meter to confirm that I'm burning dry stuff (under 20%)
I also take care of how I stack and store my splits, yes I have 3 seasons worth of wood in my yard (property is just under an acre) I stack neat and top cover during the fall / winter / spring then uncover in the summer, anyone who has come to my house always falls in love with my stacks because there nice looking and actually look like they belong in the yard.
While burning i'll do a mid season sweep (usually between x-mas and new years) then another end of season sweep. I really don't need the mid season sweep but it gives me piece of mind when I do it.
Burning wood is a lifestyle choice, if you want to do it properly then you'll have to put some effort or elbow grease in it, you cant be lazy, its not hard, actually it quite enjoyable once you get a system down, and the more you do it, the less time consuming it becomes.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . . as a firefighter since 1990, full time fire prevention officer since 1995 and a woodstove user since 2008.

Woodstoves are not for everyone . . . and that's fine. Honestly though, I like it when folks are a little bit worried about installing something in their home that could burn down their home and kill everyone in it. The folks who really worry me are the ones who buy any, old woodstove without knowing if it is sized for their home or even if it is safe . . . then installing it without paying attention to clearance requirements or hearth requirements . . . and then proceed to burn unseasoned wood (along with who knows what else) without ever cleaning the chimney . . . and they think nothing of it. As I said, it's good to worry . . . a little bit.

Just a check on some of your original statements . . . you can burn softwood safely in a woodstove -- it's not just for hardwood (although usually folks find hardwood burns longer.) Also, it's not all about burning at high temps . . . rather it's about burning at the correct temps. Burn too cool and you'll produce creosote. Burn too hot and you can ignite that creosote. You need to burn in the Goldilocks Zone -- not too cool, not too hot, but just right. This is where a thermometer will help.

I am one of those guys who tends to inspect and sweep my chimney monthly . . . although this past year I'm getting lazy and it seems as though it has been every other month. It's not because my chimney needs it. To be honest, for me it's really an easy-peasy task that takes up maybe 10 minutes since I sweep it from the bottom-up (which is nice since my roof is wicked steep). I would not recommend only sweeping annually (at least at first as there is a learning curve) . . . and you don't necessarily need to hire a sweep if you have your own equipment. Incidentally, the reason I sweep as frequently as I do is a) it is a quick and easy task and b) due to the nature of my work I never, ever want to be that one guy at the firehouse that has a fire as I would never hear the end of it . . .

Since you asked . . . zero chimney fires since 2008. There is a possibility that I may have had something small going on in the first week or two when I was still learning how to use the stove and was burning less-than-optimal wood . . .but even that was nothing . . . and in all honestly I'm not really sure if it was a true chimney fire since things never got hot and the only possible sign of a fire was a minute or so of the sound of rice krispies falling down my stove pipe. Since then . . . nothing.

I've never heard of a roof catching on fire from a chimney fire. I suppose it is possible, maybe if the roof had less of a pitch or was cedar shakes vs. asphalt or metal roofing. Even then I suspect the chimney fire would have to be pretty intense. What I've seen most often is a chimney chocker blocker full of creosote burning away so that we've had to put out the fire before it can cause damage to the liner. Almost every single time -- in fact all that I can remember -- these chimney fires have been in older masonry chimneys and the common denominator has always been a failure to inspect and clean the chimney. Most of these fires have not been a big deal. The few that were a little more serious tended to be in homes where the installation was not just out of code and the proverbial box, but in fact were installed in a way that almost made it look like the home owner read the code and did everything the opposite . . . the other times chimney fires have been a little more of a concern is in older chimneys when either they are unlined, the clay liner is cracked and degraded or the chimney was built too close to wood framing and embers and/or the heat managed to set the house on fire. I honestly cannot recall any fires in a modern Class A or metal lined chimney.

Finally, if the truth were told . . . I would be more concerned with the installation (we've seen some fires due to improper installs), clearance requirements (i.e. not stacking kindling, wood and the chair you're sitting in too close to the woodstove) and the improper disposal of ashes (i.e. using a plastic bucket or cardboard box to dispose of ashes and then sticking that bucket or box on a covered porch, deck, garage, etc. and having a coal in the ash catch the container and structure on fire.)

 

[prezes13]

I think you take more risk on by driving your car everyday than running properly installed stove proper way. Of course there is a risk but as other said you can minimize it. It's a learning curve. I rember with first year I couldn't understand how people had their glass clean my would get black after first but. You at least are here where there is a ton of very knowledgeable people. They will help you understand the stove and how to run it, like no one else. I wish I knew about this site before I bought my stove.

 

[begreen]

Just like cooking on a kitchen stove or driving a car, there are many possible dangers when burning wood in a stove or fireplace. That means we don't throw water on a bubbling hot oil fire or drive recklessly. When the equipment is kept in good operation condition and the rules of the road or kitchen are followed, accidents are uncommon. It's staying alert to the fact that they are possible that helps keep one safe.

 

[dh1989]

This is my second season burning full time and I've learned a few things so far:
Burn clean (seasoned wood), sweep regularly and keep an eye on the flue condition. If you can get an inspection mirror and have a look up the flue periodically it will keep you at ease. Sweep at least once a year or whenever you see buildup starting in the flue. When you empty your ashes keep the ash can out away from the house on a non-combustible surface for at least a week before you dump it. If you have wood that likes to pop embers on reloads sweep your hearth and floor immediately after reloading (especially hardwoods as in my case) and dump everything either back into the stove or into the kitchen sink where an ember can't ignite anything.

I have an oil burner in my house that is essentially a giant flamethrower in a cast iron box. The wood stove is a little more involved for the end user but I tend to look at it from the same perspective in that it can be operated safely if you take some simple precautions.

 

[Woody Stover]

Go with a straight up flue pipe setup with a telescoping connection pipe...this allows you to clean the flue from the bottom up either through the pipe its self or through the stove...no roof top acrobats

My setup is pretty easy to clean. I have the stove rear-vented into the fireplace with a tee, connected to a stainless liner. All I do is remove the cap on the bottom of the tee, attach a plastic bag to the open bottom of the tee, and brush down into the bag. I think I could clean from the bottom if I wanted to, but my one-story roof isn't too steep.
I brush the liner once a year; I get about a quart of stuff. There is a little bit of flaky stuff at the top 4' of the liner, where the flue gasses have cooled. Below that, all I see is soot, which I wouldn't expect to burn at all. I'm not too worried about a little flaky stuff at the top...I think it would be very hard to get enough heat up that high in the chimney to be able to ignite that.

these chimney fires have been in older masonry chimneys and the common denominator has always been a failure to inspect and clean the chimney. Most of these fires have not been a big deal. The few that were a little more serious tended to be in homes where the installation was not just out of code and the proverbial box, but in fact were installed in a way that almost made it look like the home owner read the code and did everything the opposite

That sounds like me. I didn't try to do everything wrong; That's just how it worked out. I burned wet Red Oak, only split and stacked a few months. I had stove pipe to the top of the masonry chimney, not chimney liner, and it would rust through from condensation if I waited too long to change it out (like three years.) Needless to say, it was un-insulated. I would only brush my chimney when draft slowed down in the stove to the point where smoke rolled out when I opened the door, usually I brushed once or twice a year. Elbows would be full of creosote to the point of being half blocked off. I ended up having a few chimney fires...they started after re-loads, when I had the stove burning hot to get it up to temp. Usually could cut the air and put 'em out in a minute or so, and somehow I never burned down the house.
Then, about seven years ago, I found this forum and got "dry-wood religion." I got many years ahead on my split-and-stacked wood supply and lined the chimney with an insulated stainless heavy-duty flex liner. I think the likelihood that I would ever have a chimney fire now is extremely low. Plus I have the added insurance of the insulated liner.
enigmablaze, your biggest worry is going to be getting dry wood by next fall, but it's possible to do. It's hard to buy dry wood; Sellers will call it "seasoned" but I would re-split and test several pieces of the wood with a moisture meter before buying it. It should already be in the low-20% range in order to be usable next season. Then stack it in the wind and top-cover, letting wind blow through the stack from the side.
If you have a chain saw, you may want to get your own wood. One possibility is to find a tree service that will drop free wood when they cut close to your house (specify the length needed) and start splitting and stacking Tulip Poplar, soft Maple and other fast-drying woods (no Oak unless it's for a couple years down the road.) These woods won't burn quite as long as the more dense species, but they will get you through until you can get ahead.
If you have access to a woodlot, grab small, dead trees (<8",) standing or down, with all the bark gone. Those will be almost dry enough to burn when you cut them. The upper branches of larger dead White Ash may be fairly dry.
Check your chimney frequently at first, until you have a handle on how clean your setup is burning.

 

[firefighterjake]

. . .
That sounds like me. I didn't try to do everything wrong; That's just how it worked out. I burned wet Red Oak, only split and stacked a few months. I had stove pipe to the top of the masonry chimney, not chimney liner, and it would rust through from condensation if I waited too long to change it out (like three years.) Needless to say, it was un-insulated. I would only brush my chimney when draft slowed down in the stove to the point where smoke rolled out when I opened the door, usually once or twice a year. Elbows would be full of creosote to the point of being half blocked off. I ended up having few chimney fires...they started after re-loads, when I had the stove burning hot to get the stove up to temp. Usually could cut the air and put 'em out in a minute or so, and somehow I never burned down the house.
Then, about seven years ago, I found this forum and got "dry-wood religion.". . ..

We . . . well "I" . . . love it when someone becomes a "convert" and finally gets it . . . sadly it often means we will no longer be making midnight visits with these folks any more or getting cookies from them the next day in appreciation of us stopping the fire, cleaning out their chimney and not destroying their chimney liner in the process.