Getting the Fireview up to heat ?

[clambdin]

I am using a new fireview this year and am wondering how you guys get this thing up to the high temp range ? the book says stoke the fire on bypass until the surface temp in 500 degrees and the close the bypass, I have tried this but it just will not go up to 500 on bypass it gets to about 350 degrees and no matter how much i feed it thats about all she will do on bypass once the bypass is closed I get about 500 on catalytic and then it starts to die down after a few hours..I am burning seasoned oak and hickory...?

 

[begreen]

Sounds like the wood could be seasoned, but maybe partially damp on the inside. Have you tried splitting some of the splits in half and feeling the fresh wood to see if it's damp?

You might try the above, then take a few armloads of the freshly split wood inside. Spread it out and let it dry for 24 hrs. indoors. Then try starting a fire with this wood and see if it works better.

 

[clambdin]

Interesting I will try that, I thought the wood may be a little to dry because it seems to burn into coals before it gets the stone up to heat.

 

[begreen]

The wood may be ok, this is just a test to eliminate variables. It's really hard to test wood moisture more accurately over the internet. ;-) What size are the wood splits that you are feeding into the stove?

I don't have this stove, hopefully one of the Fireview owners will chime in shortly. But in the meantime, if the wood is fully dry, then could it be that you are engaging the cat too late? I thought that the stovetop temp at which one engages the cat was more like 250 on this stove.

Stove Not Burning Hot Enough - Combustor not firing

Follow instructions for starting fire and
make sure stovetop thermometer
reaches 250 before engaging combustor.
Once combustor is engaged, set air
control at 1 and leave alone.

 

[Todd]

I am using a new fireview this year and am wondering how you guys get this thing up to the high temp range ? the book says stoke the fire on bypass until the surface temp in 500 degrees and the close the bypass, I have tried this but it just will not go up to 500 on bypass it gets to about 350 degrees and no matter how much i feed it thats about all she will do on bypass once the bypass is closed I get about 500 on catalytic and then it starts to die down after a few hours..I am burning seasoned oak and hickory...?

BG is right. Your waiting too long to engage the cat. Stove temp only needs to reach 250, it will be double that or 500 inside. To get a quick start from a cold stove use lots of kindling and small splits and burn with the bypass open til there is a good coal bed established, then add larger splits and continue to burn with bypass for anothe 10-20 minutes then engage.

Also watch you air settings, you don't need to burn on #4 the whole time in the bypass mode. I only use #4 till the flames are established then turn it down. This way you wont send too much heat up your chimney and the stove will heat up faster.

I like to engage the cat around #1 for a few minutes then tweak it down from there. Other stoves will vary, a small air adjustment on this stove can make a big difference.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

We do very close to what Todd does. When I start a fire with small kindling, I also put a couple small splits on top. When that is going good (long before any bed of coals), I'll add a couple more splits. I leave the draft full open until the flue temperature is up to 500 degrees (we have a horizontal pipe so might be different for vertical). I then cut the air to number 2, which holds the 500 degree flue temperature. When the stove top reaches 250, then the cat. is engaged and the air cut to #1. Then, like Todd, it is tweaked from there.

Just be very certain that wood is well seasoned or you will ruin the cat. fast! If in doubt, when reloading the stove, instead of waiting 10-15 minutes, wait for a longer period to make sure you get the moisture out of the wood before engaging the cat.

45 minutes maximum should be all you'd need to get that stove really cooking.

 

[MacPB]

Hello,

I'm a new wood burner with a Woodstock Fireview and it's only my second week using this stove. Dennis, I was wondering how you're able to tell the flue temp. I have double wall stovepipe. Should I use a probe thermometer such as the on from Condar?

I have read on this site that flue temperatures should not exceed approx. 800-900 on startup in the stovepipe, but Woodstock said the max should be more like 500 just as you have said.

It takes me about 60 - 70 minutes to get up to the temp to engage the catalytic combustor. In the mean time the flue temp is rising (the magnetic thermometer that I have on the stovepipe 18" above the stove top read almost 250 degrees yesterday) and the smoke alarm was going off (no smoke present; it goes off from the oven being on too). Once the "cat" is engaged, the temp in the flue drops down and then I can relax.

Do you have any tips to improve my startup time?

BTW, I'm currently using only seasoned dry wood (mixed soft and hardwoods).

Thanks in advance for any helpful info,

Mike

 

[begreen]

A magnetic thermometer on a double wall pipe is not very helpful. Get a probe thermometer and you'll find that your flue temps are higher than you think. Put the current flue thermometer on the stovetop. It seems that you are also waiting too long to engage the cat. If you are reading 250 on double-wall pipe surface, my guess is that the interior temp is maybe as much as 3x higher?

 

[MacPB]

A magnetic thermometer on a double wall pipe is not very helpful. Get a probe thermometer and I think you will find that your flue temps are much higher than you think. Put the current flue thermometer on the stovetop. My guess is that you are also waiting too long to engage the cat. If you are reading 250 on double-wall pipe surface, my guess is that the interior temp is 3x higher, or more.

BeGreen,

Thanks for that response. That's what I have guessed (three times the surface mag temp) from what I have read on this site.

That leaves me with a temp of about 750 degrees. Is that too high while starting up? Should I be concerned? I have a second floor with a chase around the chimney pipe (Class A Selkirk). While starting up, I have tried to to touch the base of the pipe where it comes up through the connector out of the support bucket and it is pretty hot. BTW, the chase will be enclosed, but I left one wall open for now (for the inspector and so I know what's going on in the chase before I seal it up).

Thanks,

Mike

 

[begreen]

It's hot, but well within safety limits. FWIW, our stack probe thermometer rarely gets over 600 on startup or refeeds. But with our old 602, we would see 750 stack temps before dampering down the flue and stove.

 

[MacPB]

BeGreen,

I am definitely buying on of these probe thermometers. It looks like they are the only manufacturer out there with a flue probe product.

This is from the product page:

Directions for Use
Condar's FlueGard (3-39) Thermometer is designed for insertion into the stovepipe, with the end of the probe approximately centered inside the flue for accurate readings.
To install a FlueGard Thermometer, drill a ¼-inch hole in the flue pipe at least 18 inches above the top of the stove or furnace. For double-wall pipe, drill a ¼-inch hole in the outer wall, and a 3/16-inch hole through the inner wall. Position so the thermometer can be read easily at a glance. Slide the eyelet and magnet onto the stem of the thermometer; and insert into the hole.

When properly installed, the FlueGard accurately reads flue-gas temperatures, with an error margin less than 5%. If placed closer than 18-inches from the top of your stove or furnace, the thermometer will read slightly higher. Creosote on the stem of the thermometer will have little effect on the readings. When used on horizontal stovepipes, add 6% to temperature readings due to lower heat transfer. Before cleaning your flue pipe, remember to remove the thermometer.

Guidelines for Probe Thermometer Temperature Readings
Consult your stove manufacturer's manual for precise temperature recommendations. See below for approximate guidelines, if the FlueGard is installed properly on the flu pipe. Note that flue gas readings are approximately 50% higher than surface temperature readings:
100°F to 400°F: Temperature too low. Incomplete combustion, causing smoke, soot and hazardous creosote. Open draft and/or add dry fuel.

400°F to 900°F: Safe operating temperature. Complete combustion and best efficiency.

900°F to 1200°F: Wasting energy, possibly overheating. While high temperatures are often reached on initial firing, should not be maintained for normal operation. Reduce draft.

(broken link removed to http://www.condar.com/probe_meters_dir4use_woodstoves.html)

 

[MacPB]

BTW,

Has any one that owns a Woodstock stove had success with the "top down" fire method? Also, if so, could this possibly help me reduce my startup time until I engage the catalytic combustor?

Mike

 

[MacPB]

Would the Super Cedar Fire Starters work in a Fireview? Could they reduce startup time?

Mike

 

[Todd]

Hey MAC,
I had the Condar probe last year and it didn't last the whole season. It started to read high and was very slow to react. Eventually it got so bad it would just continue to rise until it pegged out, so I went back to an external, but I have single wall pipe. Maybe it will work out better for you?

Top down method works great for me. I take 2 small splits and take a small chunk of fire starter, light it, and stack kindling on top. After this burns down I add 3 or 4 small or medium splits and continue to burn til light off. I adjust the air as needed and try not to let the pipe get above 500 or the stove seems to take longer to warm up for light off.

 

[Todd]

It takes me about 60 - 70 minutes to get up to the temp to engage the catalytic combustor. In the mean time the flue temp is rising (the magnetic thermometer that I have on the stovepipe 18" above the stove top read almost 250 degrees yesterday) and the smoke alarm was going off (no smoke present; it goes off from the oven being on too). Once the "cat" is engaged, the temp in the flue drops down and then I can relax.

Do you have any tips to improve my startup time?

BTW, I'm currently using only seasoned dry wood (mixed soft and hardwoods).

Thanks in advance for any helpful info,

Mike

Put that thermometer on your stove top and engage cat at 250. The inside of your stove is roughly double the stove top temp. Pipe thermometers are also a good tool for reloading and overall temp monitoring while in the bypass mode, but you really need to go by the stove top for cat time. The smoke detector going off may be due to paint curring on the pipe or stove.

 

[karri0n]

The smoke detector going off may be due to paint curring on the pipe or stove.

Or, it could be one of those "Smoke and fire" detectors that came out in the 80's-90's. They have IR sensors. We had one in the kitchen that we eventually took the battery out of because it went off every time the oven was opened.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Hello,

I'm a new wood burner with a Woodstock Fireview and it's only my second week using this stove. Dennis, I was wondering how you're able to tell the flue temp. I have double wall stovepipe. Should I use a probe thermometer such as the on from Condar?

I have read on this site that flue temperatures should not exceed approx. 800-900 on startup in the stovepipe, but Woodstock said the max should be more like 500 just as you have said.

It takes me about 60 - 70 minutes to get up to the temp to engage the catalytic combustor. In the mean time the flue temp is rising (the magnetic thermometer that I have on the stovepipe 18" above the stove top read almost 250 degrees yesterday) and the smoke alarm was going off (no smoke present; it goes off from the oven being on too). Once the "cat" is engaged, the temp in the flue drops down and then I can relax.

Do you have any tips to improve my startup time?

BTW, I'm currently using only seasoned dry wood (mixed soft and hardwoods).

Thanks in advance for any helpful info,

Mike

Mike, it looks like you have some good answers already.

Todd likes the top down fire starting but I'm still of the old school and so far have had much better luck starting from the bottom up as usual. I have tried top down a few times but just didn't have that good of luck.

I'm not against putting a couple of larger than kindling sized pieces in the bottom before placing the kindling. I'm not against using paper either as long as it is not colored ink or glossy stuff. For kindling I mostly use soft maple. I split a bunch of it every year in about 1" square pieces and let it dry. We also pick up a lot of splinters from where I split wood.

If I'm only using the soft maple kindling, I use maybe 6 pieces. If they are different sizes, the smallest goes on the bottom. On top of the kindling I'll place a couple of very dry small splits of whatever I happen to grab, but usually soft maple.

It doesn't take long to get this started. As soon as I have good flame and the top splits are starting to catch, I'm not against putting a couple more splits on or at least one more. I'll also usually leave the fire door open a crack until I get a good flame (it will sort of start to sound like a blow torch only on a much lesser scale). Then the door gets closed and we let the fire do its thing.

As the flue temperature rises, the draft starts getting closed. Just a little to a time. If we reach 500 degrees, the draft gets to 1/2 closed immediately. This will allow the flue gasses to stay hot but all the heat doesn't then go up the chimney; it stays in the stove to heat the inards. The stove top will very soon hit 250 degrees where we then engage the cat. and close the draft to 1. From there it is just finding the sweet spot, which actually can be different each time depending upon wood, outdoor temperature, barometric pressure, etc.

This method works for us and usually within 45 minutes or less we have good heat. We can have the stove top to 500 within an hour very easily if we want, but we don't want that yet as it isn't that cold to need that much heat...yet.


Mike, you also asked about the Super Cedar Fire Starters. We did try them and they do work. However, they also will dirty the glass very fast and I'm not really sure they should be used in a cat. stove. In other stoves, they work great. Also, don't use fatwood. A little paper, some fine kindling and a match should do the trick for you. It won't be long before you'll forget that altogether because you won't let that stove go out!

 

[MacPB]

I had the Condar probe last year and it didn’t last the whole season. It started to read high and was very slow to react. Eventually it got so bad it would just continue to rise until it pegged out, so I went back to an external, but I have single wall pipe. Maybe it will work out better for you?

Todd,

Thanks for the response.

I just installed the Condar Flue gas thermometer (older style black one). I will calibrate/confirm that it is accurate, then measure internal temp on double-wall stove pipe versus external temp with another thermometer (Vogelzang that I confirmed is accurate) and see what the difference is. I will post the results (it seems a lot of people post regarding this). I will also use, of course, the stove top thermometer provided by Woodstock. Maybe I'll record this on a spreadsheet in intervals as the stove starts up.

Regarding this flue gas thermometer, do you think it need to be sealed? Condar said there is no need to. Also, how did you close/seal the hole left in the stove pipe after you removed the thermometer?


Mike

 

[MacPB]

The smoke detector going off may be due to paint curring on the pipe or stove.

Good call. That's what it smells like. Woodstock said the paint will not fully cure until the temp is 400 degrees. I've only had the stove (external top temp after catalystic combustor was engaged) up to 350 degrees so far.

 

[MacPB]

Mike, you also asked about the Super Cedar Fire Starters. We did try them and they do work. However, they also will dirty the glass very fast and I’m not really sure they should be used in a cat. stove.

Dennis,

Thanks. Super Cedar Fire Starters web site states:

The lift-off test shows that the Super Cedar Firestarters actually HELPED the stove and catalytic converter temperatures climb faster than with regular kindling techniques. Just as important, Super Cedar Firestarters had no detrimental effects on the catalytic activity during the entire test run.

Source: (broken link removed to http://www.supercedar.com/cattest.html)

(broken image removed)


I'm going to take advice and not use them.

Regarding the catalyst, Woodstock recommends engaging the catalystic combustor as soon as the stove top reaches 250 degrees (500 internal). Applied Ceramics, the manufacturer of the catalystic combustor, in one of their support videos (http://www.appliedceramics.com/), says to make sure to wait 15-20 minutes after reaching 500 degrees (internal) before engaging the combustor. I'm assuming that this discrepancy between engaging times accounts for the lag time in the soapstone. Am I correct?


Mike

 

[MacPB]

Here are the results on the oven test that I did. I assume that I did this right and of course my oven could be off slightly, but I put four thermometers in the oven and set it at 400 degrees. I also bought two Condar flue thermometers (older style black).

Woodstock thermometer (provided with stove): 440˚
Vogelzang Model TG-01: 500˚
Condar Flue thermometer Model 3-19 (first one): 1100˚
Condar Flue thermometer Model 3-19 (second one): 900˚

This is quite a descrepancy between thermometers. The Woodstock seems most accurate and Vogelzang is close.

The huge difference in the Condar units could be how they were packaged (the indicator arm is on the outside of the circular gauge and was not really protected in the box so well). It could also be that they are only meant to measure from the tip of the probe and heating up the surface throws off the reading. I would like to think that a reputable company such as Condar would not sell an inaccurate product when safety is an issue.

Mike

 

[pinewoodburner]

I am also on the first week of learning to use my new Fireview. One thing that I have found over my old stove is that if the stove is cold, it takes some time to heat up. Even with the stove warm and adding wood, the temps do not climb fast like a metal stove. Great burn times. My question is what settings do you use to get the stove over 500 degrees. I am burning 3 year old oak and need to set the air setting on 2 to get that temp. Do I need to set it lower? Thanks Jeff

 

[Todd]

[quote author="MacPB" date="1227706731

Regarding the catalyst, Woodstock recommends engaging the catalystic combustor as soon as the stove top reaches 250 degrees (500 internal). Applied Ceramics, the manufacturer of the catalystic combustor, in one of their support videos (http://www.appliedceramics.com/), says to make sure to wait 15-20 minutes after reaching 500 degrees (internal) before engaging the combustor. I'm assuming that this discrepancy between engaging times accounts for the lag time in the soapstone. Am I correct?


Mike[/quote]

I don't know why you would want to wait another 15-20 minutes if your already at light off temp. Seems like a waste of time and heat. Engage that cat and get her cookin! I think they were saying to keep that temp at 500 for awhile longer and not to turn the stove down too soon so the cat won't lose temp and go out. It needs some time to stabalize.

Great information videos btw.

 

[Todd]

I am also on the first week of learning to use my new Fireview. One thing that I have found over my old stove is that if the stove is cold, it takes some time to heat up. Even with the stove warm and adding wood, the temps do not climb fast like a metal stove. Great burn times. My question is what settings do you use to get the stove over 500 degrees. I am burning 3 year old oak and need to set the air setting on 2 to get that temp. Do I need to set it lower? Thanks Jeff

#2 may be too high and the smoke is passing through the cat too fast not giving it enough time to burn. Try engaging at #1, leave it there for about 10-15 minutes then tweak it either up or down from there. I have been running mine between .5 and .75 most of the season so far and have no problem reaching temps over 500 this way with a full load.

Sometimes when you engage at #1 it seems like the fire is dying and you get tempted to give it more air to see the flames. Be patient and give it some time, the flames will come back. The draft is slowed a bit once it starts through the cat so it takes some time to adjust.

 

[pinewoodburner]

I am also on the first week of learning to use my new Fireview. One thing that I have found over my old stove is that if the stove is cold, it takes some time to heat up. Even with the stove warm and adding wood, the temps do not climb fast like a metal stove. Great burn times. My question is what settings do you use to get the stove over 500 degrees. I am burning 3 year old oak and need to set the air setting on 2 to get that temp. Do I need to set it lower? Thanks Jeff

#2 may be too high and the smoke is passing through the cat too fast not giving it enough time to burn. Try engaging at #1, leave it there for about 10-15 minutes then tweak it either up or down from there. I have been running mine between .5 and .75 most of the season so far and have no problem reaching temps over 500 this way with a full load.

Sometimes when you engage at #1 it seems like the fire is dying and you get tempted to give it more air to see the flames. Be patient and give it some time, the flames will come back. The draft is slowed a bit once it starts through the cat so it takes some time to adjust.

Thanks, I will try that.