Like everyone here, I have had smoke issues when loading wood, with my EKO 60 in the basement. Mark at AHONA set me up with a Jernlund draft inducer, and Honeywell limit switch. The limit switch is installed below the loading door. It has a long, spring-like wand that is closed when the upper door is latched closed. The draft inducer is in the smoke pipe. When the loading door is opened, the limit switch is closed. I wired it so the inducer fan comes on at 100%. So when I open the door, and wait a few seconds, the smoke is pulled up and out the chimney. Mark wired his so that it comes on at the same proportion as the EKO fans during regular use, but I just used it as a smoke removal tool. It has worked very well, and unless I leave the loading door wide open, it prevents almost all smoke from coming out of the EKO during loading. Creative, and highly recommended.
Good Results Reducing Smoke with Draft Inducer and Limit Switch on EKO 60
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I wouldn't think running the inducer during normal operation with an EKO would be a particularly good thing. I'd stick with running it only during loads and let the pressure fan do what it was designed to do during normal operation. Just my two cents...
I observed how Mark had it set up at the Fryeburg fair. It worked like a charm and keep his stack temp at a constant 350º. Bottom line... saves wood and increases efficiency. He is a very clever boy.
trehugr said:
If I were to guess it kept the fire going with crap wood more than made it more efficient. If you are pulling the heat past the water tubes then you are not allowing the pipes to absorbe the heat. I f I had good seasoned wood and used a inducer and had it run with my blower I would see very high temps in my chim pipe. The biomass is wired this way from the factory with the switch on the door when you open the door it turns on the built in draft fan and shuts the blower fan off.
Just my .02cents
Rob
I used to have a draft inducer in my stack. It did remove some smoke, but I still had a measurable amount coming out the door, even with the draft fan at its highest speed.
The problem is the design of the upper chamber. The door opening is higher than the rear flap, or rear exit to the stack.
Before I grew a brain, I installed my inducer without an auto shut off for when you forget and leave it on. I overheated my system badly and learned my lesson.
Cave had tested a flexible flap installed onto the upper area of the door-the idea was to at least make the door opening level with the rear exit. I think if this was used in conjuction with a draft inducer, it may be a good combo.
The problem is the design of the upper chamber. The door opening is higher than the rear flap, or rear exit to the stack.
Before I grew a brain, I installed my inducer without an auto shut off for when you forget and leave it on. I overheated my system badly and learned my lesson.
Cave had tested a flexible flap installed onto the upper area of the door-the idea was to at least make the door opening level with the rear exit. I think if this was used in conjuction with a draft inducer, it may be a good combo.
I forgot to mention that Mark uses a barometric damper in conjunction with the draft inducer. He has it set up so the stack temp never exceeds 350. That to me means no wasted heat out the stack, which means more efficient burning. The guy knows what he is doing, otherwise he would not be A.H.O.N.A. Even the owners from Orlanski in Poland said "you sure know how to make our boiler run good.." Mark is an excellent mechanic who understands details that us "other mechanics" would fail to see. Bottom line .. if you want some tips on how to make your EKO run better .. Mark is the go to guy.
I resign from this thread as I feel it may be leaning toward bias on my part.
I resign from this thread as I feel it may be leaning toward bias on my part.
trehugr said:
Trehugr,
I am glad you posted in this topic, I too have pushed the barometric damper as I have one installed on my boiler to really let me fine tune my system. Here is my guess on why he runs a baro and a draft fan.......
A poor drafting chimney= use draft fan and set baro to .04to .08 wc (marks case?)
A chimney that drafts too good as in mine just install barometric damper and set to .04 to .08 wc
Bottom line is the Barometric damper keeps your boiler in tune thru your entire burn. If you can get Mark to chime in here and really help people fine tune these systems that would be great. Most of us know the we dont get straight answeres from other places we call.
Rob
I was thinking this thread was to discuss the smoke problem, or rather a thought about improving it. This I am always interested in hearing thoughts.
If we are talking fine tuning, this is different than the thread title. Anything I can learn to get every ounce of heat available is a plus in my book.
Do not resign, tree.
If we are talking fine tuning, this is different than the thread title. Anything I can learn to get every ounce of heat available is a plus in my book.
Do not resign, tree.
barnartist said:
well a draft inducer is part of smoke problem and we are talking about draft inducers.......lol
Ok sorry to hijack your thread
Rob
I am interested to know which Tjerlund , D-3 or DJ-3. Also the info on the limit switch. from what I have found they are quite pricey. I put a smoke flap on my stove along with external primary control and It works ok.I think the inducer would take care of the rest.I know some smoke is caused by me rushing things at times ,but there is definitely a design flaw.I have thought about a smoke hood of some sort ?? too much clutter .It would be nice if all the smoke went up the same pipe.
I have an EKO 40 with 600 gallons of storage. Mine smokes a lot when loading especially if the fire box is half full. I load mine at 5:30 in the morning before work and at 6:00pm after work. On cold nights I will top it off at 9:00 before bed. I do not wait for the fire to go out before loading like the book recommends. My stack temperature is less than 150 degrees F when running with the damper closed. I do not know if this is typical. I have a 4 to 5 foot horizontal stack to the chimney. I do not have any creosote but I have allot of ash in the pipe. I clean it every 2 months. To solve the smoke problem I installed a second hand range hood above the loading door. I turn it on high before opening the door and leave it on while loading. I do not shut it off until the smoke has cleared several minutes after closing the door. This has stopped the complaints from my wife smelling smoke upstairs. The system works great. One drawback is the damper sticks with creosote so bad sometimes I have to open the door with the damper closed and poke it with a 2X4. This makes it impossible to have my wife load the unit. Is creosote buildup in the upper chamber a common problem?
Hey Taxi, as I read back a bit on this thread, I saw one of my replies really came out weird and sounded harsh. I did not realize it till I see it here now a month later... sorry about that. Sometimes words really come out bad. I think what I meant to say was I enjoy reading any bonus material that can help with the boiler tweeking...please continue all.
Harry, I'd love to see a picture if you have the ability. I started to build a smoke catcher out of 4" round ductwork but have not finished running it outside yet.
Harry, I'd love to see a picture if you have the ability. I started to build a smoke catcher out of 4" round ductwork but have not finished running it outside yet.
!! LOL
nhharry said:
How are you measuring the flue temps - 150°F seems really low, but if you are just checking against the outside of the pipe with a magnetic thermometer or equivalent, it might be OK, as the surface temps are usually only about half the inside temps.
In terms of the smoke, it sounds like most of the problem is that you aren't letting the unit burn down before opening the door - do that with any of the gassers, you'll tend to get smoke.
On the creosote, how much are you idling, and what are you using for boiler water temps - usually if people have enough storage for the heat they are making, so as not to idle, and run the boiler water temps up on the high end, they don't report a lot of creosote issues...
Gooserider
I am measuring the flue temp. with a surface thermometer. The boiler temp is set at 190 f. Fan comes on when the boiler temp drops to 186 f. I have two vertical storage tanks 300 gallons each. The temp. at the top of the tanks, exit to feed house, runs 180 to 185. The temp at the bottom of the tanks, return from house and feed to boiler runs 165 to 175 when house is satisfied and boiler is ideling, 150 to 155 when house is calling for heat. I have thermometers that set back at night so the boiler idles at night. Also during the day when the sun is out and the house is satisfied the system idles. My house is 2600 square feet and well insulated, 6" fiberglass in the walls 12" in the ceiling so the boiler probably idles more than normal.
I will send a picture of the range hood.
I will send a picture of the range hood.
What are you running for a distribution system? It sounds to me like you really don't have enough storage for the tank swing that you are using. Your boiler really shouldn't be idling very much at all, as that is what causes the excessive buildup in the upper chamber.
It sounds to me like you need to either improve the heat emitters to let you get more use out of the storage, or add more storage (or both) so that your burn cycle will allow you to run flat out without idling, and without needing to reload on a half full fire box. Right now it sounds like you are running the gasser the same way one would a conventional boiler, which is NOT the way these things are designed to run...
The flue temps are probably OK if you are getting that reading with a surface thermometer, though a probe type unit would be better as it gives a more accurate reading.
The boiler cycle temps seem OK, but it sounds like you aren't getting a lot of use out of your storage tanks - I think that is a large part of the problem.
Gooserider
It sounds to me like you need to either improve the heat emitters to let you get more use out of the storage, or add more storage (or both) so that your burn cycle will allow you to run flat out without idling, and without needing to reload on a half full fire box. Right now it sounds like you are running the gasser the same way one would a conventional boiler, which is NOT the way these things are designed to run...
The flue temps are probably OK if you are getting that reading with a surface thermometer, though a probe type unit would be better as it gives a more accurate reading.
The boiler cycle temps seem OK, but it sounds like you aren't getting a lot of use out of your storage tanks - I think that is a large part of the problem.
Gooserider
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