got to love Mass government??????

Doug MacIVER Posted By Doug MacIVER, Jul 11, 2018 at 7:41 PM

  1. begreen

    begreen
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    That make sense in a depressed area. Has it ever been a booming area? Down where my sister lives in rural NC it's the police jobs that are sought after for similar reasons.
     
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  2. bholler

    bholler
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    No the employees like my wife dont want bentleys not even one of them. But they do want their pay to go up to keep pace with cost of living. I dont find that to be greed.
     
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  3. bholler

    bholler
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    I dont support doubling it over night either. But does that mean we shouldnt increase it at all?
     
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  4. Ashful

    Ashful
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    It's neither here nor there, and I don't mean to disparage anyone's choices in life, teaching is an honorable profession. But, I have several friends who became teachers, and trust me... they're not working exceptionally hard. A few of the more ambitious have picked up summer work, which adds to their income, one is a bartender and the other runs a small painting company. More of them spend their summers taking their kids to amusement parks and the Jersey shore, I'm envious of that.

    But most ambitious professionals put in lots of hours during the school year... AND the summer. Just one unremarkable example: yesterday I was at work by 7:15am and left at 5pm, did another hour of work at home before dinner, and then another hour late night before bed. Subtracting an hour to run some errands and grab a lunch on the go, that's an 10.5 to 11 hour day. This is not uncommon for many professions, my wife does the same for her company, but unlike teachers... we're doing it 49-50 weeks per year.
     
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  5. bholler

    bholler
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    For most teachers i know working 10.5 to 11 hours in a day would be a fairly short day. If your friends choose to not work hard that is on them. But there are people in every field who do the minimum required and dont work hard.
     
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  6. Ashful

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    One of my best friends is so far left that he complains the Democratic Party is too right. We debate this very subject, quite frequently.

    Me: Anyone can make their own success, in this country.
    Him: But not everyone.
    Me: Nor should everyone, but any one of those people can.
    Him: What good is that?

    It’s just a difference of principles, upon which we will never agree.
     
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  7. bholler

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    I am not saying every one should be rich. But if someone goes to work everyday and does their job they should be able to live off what they make. And sadly for many that isnt the case.

    I do totally agree we give to much aid to freely with to few checks. This allows for to many to take advantage. But there are also lots of companies that take advantage of the system as well. Those on the right never seem to complain about that.
     
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  8. Seasoned Oak

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    Reread the post of mine you just quoted #128,I said tying it to inflation would make sense. Does that sound like "we shouldnt increase it at all"
     
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  9. Seasoned Oak

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    It was booming with coal mines and textile mills. Now neither exist. And yes Police jobs pay very well 60 -70 k plus great benefits . One of the highest paying jobs around here. And in big demand as the drug epidemic rolls across america.
     
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  10. sportbikerider78

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    Mostly, the market and supply/demand dictates what we make. Is it perfect? Nope. But it most cases we can always make ourselves better to make more money.

    The alternative is what?....A government/set of laws and system that forces companies to pay a certain person this and another person that?

    I would suggest there are WAY more flaws in the alternative then what we have now.
     
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  11. bholler

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    If you look at the statistics it hasnt been working for a long time. Wages havnt been keeping up with inflation at all.
     
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  12. sportbikerider78

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    The market isn't controlling inflation. The Federal reserve prints money with wreckless abandon and QE destroys the value of our money.

    The market can't be blamed for something the market doesn't control.
     
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  13. bholler

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    Yes but the fed has been holding down inflation. That would help the problem. But it hasnt.
     
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  14. Doug MacIVER

    Doug MacIVER
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    I would suggest that is what happens when you have a one sided economy. classic definition of an economy, the production and trade of goods and services> on the service side you can only trade $$$$$ which thins out over time.. The production side has changed dramatically from hard goods to intellectual . just not the mix enjoyed by some other countries today.
     
  15. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak
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    You cant drain a country of jobs by the millions for decades,run huge trade deficits in the hundreds of billions yearly, allow foreign countries to steal your intellectual property to the tune of hundreds of billions yearly,and borrow an additional hundreds of billions yearly to prop it all up,and have no adverse effects. Yet that is what is going on. Its a miracle were still afloat at all (Barely)
     
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  16. bholler

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    I agree completly. And both political parties are to blame.
     
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  17. Seasoned Oak

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    Yes they are,and it will all come crashing down at some point. Eventually you run out of other peoples money to borrow and printing more will bring on the Venezuela syndrome.
     
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  18. Ashful

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    This is true, but I’d argue it’s simply a decade-long correction to the 1990’s, when wage increases in the middle and upper classes were vastly out-pacing inflation, compounded by a few years of instability created in the wake of 911. The beauty of capitalism, as sportsbikerider is trying to explain, is its self-correcting nature. Yes, some folks do a poor job of positioning themselves within the system, but that is due entirely to personal ambition, we can’t fault the system.

    As to folks being able to make a living wage, no matter what they do... no. There is no sense in paying for an undesirable service. The shoe industry example given several pages above is perfect, the consumer never benefits from protecting an industry operating at miserable efficiency.

    There are socialist countries, with politics that are the antithesis of my own, but I don’t see people climbing boarder fences to get into them. It’s interesting that there are always folks suggesting we should move in that direction, having already seen it fail (or failing) under every possible set of circumstances.
     
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  19. sportbikerider78

    sportbikerider78
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    The fed has been printing money like crazy and this keeps the interest on money down. Inflation increases because there is now more supply in the system. The more money the less it is worth.
    The only people who don't feel the inflation are the first spenders and the banks borrowing.

    As Americans, many have come to accept it as normal that a $1 now is worth $.20-.30 about 30 years from now. We don't have to accept this as normal. Inflation is killing retirements.
     
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  20. bholler

    bholler
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    Problem with that reasoning is that wage stagnation goes back before the 90s. And capitalism is not self correcting when it comes to the working class at all.
     
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  21. Seasoned Oak

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    The good news is we are all free to choose which part of the system we want to work with. The last W-2 i ever got was in 1988. I just couldnt live with only recieving 60% or so of what i earned plus as an employee i knew the lions share would go to the owners and not to me and so it should be,but i didnt have to stay. I didnt get rich working on my own, but i would do it all over again. I most likely got a better retirement plan by being SE. There are ways to use inflation to your benefit as well. Buy assets that appreciate faster than inflation among others.
     
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  22. begreen

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    Well, this is a long way from discussing a distracted driver bill, but I want to commend all for keeping things civil in spite of currently wading through Fed policy (which is not a govt. agency or bank).
     
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  23. Ashful

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    Yes, exactly. I enjoy political debates, even with people having an opinion very different than my own, when it can remain civil. It’s how we all learn. Folks here have changed my mind on many things, already.
     
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  24. Seasoned Oak

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    Can you elaborate on that?
     
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  25. Ashful

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    Mostly my views on resource and energy conservation. My carbon foot print may never dip below 2.5 jebatty’s (my proposed new unit of measurement), but at least I’m thinking about it now, and making a lot of small positive changes.

    Woodgeek has become my favorite read on this forum, without a doubt, even though I’m quite sure his political views are very different than my own. Same with peakbagger, and even jebatty. They have a lot to teach us, even if we disagree on key lifestyle choices, and political mindset. The point is, despite having fun with some occasional political jabs, we keep it civil.

    Heck, I really like bholler a lot, and someday I’ll straighten out his thinking on wages, too!
     
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