Grand Solar Minimum - Is a mini ice age upon us?

RFarm Posted By RFarm, Jun 5, 2017 at 3:08 PM

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  1. Seasoned Oak

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    [QUOTE="begreen, post: 2178480, member: 5"any is a dirty, g]All the more reason to eliminate single-use plastics from the marketplace. They were not in existence 60 yrs ago.
    l[/QUOTE]
    I agree ,either change back to paper or some other biodegradable material . Plastic bags only part of the problem. Look in the average refrigerator and what % of items in a plastic container ,plastic wrap 99% ?
     
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  2. begreen

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    Single-use plastics include water bottles, clamshell to-go and produce containers, styrofoam packing, plastic bags, spoons, forks, etc.. Some good biodegradable substitutes are either coming on the market or already here. It should be a global effort. Some markets like bottled water are often contrived. In our region there is little to any reason to pay $8 or even $4 per gallon for water which is what it comes to for most vending machine water. A lot of bottled water is just filtered city water. Buy a decent stainless steel water bottle and bring your own.
     
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  3. sportbikerider78

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    Shrink wrap packaging helps eliminate waste, not create it. It prevents a much larger mass plastic (like a container) from being used. The weight and volume of plastic to cover 5lbs of chicken breasts is very low and very inexpensive.
     
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  4. tarzan

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    I can remember seeing bottled water for sale in a convenience store around 1990. Boy did I have a laugh about that.;em
     
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  5. begreen

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    Yes, once CocaCola and Pepsi bottling got involved marketing took off like crazy.
     
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  6. Ashful

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    Good example. Refrigerators are trending toward becoming single-use plastic containers. The house where I grew up still has a 1953 GE refrigerator running in the garage today. My childhood kitchen refrigerator lasted 25 years. But in more recent years, they seem to need replacement them every 3 - 8 years. I don't think I've gotten 10 years out of a refrigerator since before 1995.
     
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  7. tarzan

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    The refrigerator in our kitchen is 18 years old and still going strong (probably a fluke) although the pressure from the wife is mounting.

    For some reason we need a four door fridge and the ability to take pics of the contents from the grocery store? Why can't we just do that before we leave the house?

    Heck, those little old ladies with the change purses carry a hand written grocery list and they are the ones that can always let you borrow a cup or bowl of whatever you forgot on your trip to the the grocery store.
     
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  8. Seasoned Oak

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    Iv recently started recycling plastic bottles for the first time in my life. Not to save the planet , but to reduce my waste stream as i no longer get trash pickup. Found i dont really need it. Without some kind of govt intervention and a consensus among nations the plastic problem will only get worse. Im NOT optimistic!
     
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  9. begreen

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    Back to climate science.. Cliff Mass's (UW scientist) June 17th blog provides a measured view on the harm of exaggerating climate change evidence.
    http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/ I respect Cliff Mass. He is not a climate change denier, but he believes in truth in science and sticking to the facts and evidence, understanding that enormous changes will have to occur in infrastructure and lifestyles in order to cope with climate change.
     
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  10. sportbikerider78

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    If you guys believe that modern life as we know it is destroying the environment and causing massive heating of the climate..why don't you stop consuming resources like fossil fuel, plastic, cars...ect?
    How can you complain about everyone else while being part of the problem? Refuse to fly. Take your bike. Live in a tiny home..how many of you are doing this?
     
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  11. begreen

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    True, and many at least locally have chosen to keep vehicles longer, recycle better and create less waste. We go to the dump only 2-3 times a year with no garbage pickup. On the other hand we go to the recycling center about 4 times a year in a 23 yr old pickup truck and drive an electric car for about 80% of our total mileage. Grocery shopping is with cloth bags and bringing our own containers. But for big societal change it takes larger systems to make products available the are inherently less wasteful. Cities that have excellent municipal recycling programs make a difference. The LED bulb and greatly increased fuel mileage of most vehicles makes bigger differences than my wife washing out plastic produce bags for recycling to the food bank, but it all helps if we are more mindful of our impact on our one and only home.
     
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  12. begreen

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    Here is one option developed in Poland that uses wheat bran to create biodegradable cutlery and plates. They claim to stand up to heat and liquids and will store for years if kept dry, yet break down in 30 days
    http://biotrem.pl/en/
     
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  13. WoodyIsGoody

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    Good job Begreen! I too like being a part of change for the better. And I'm proud to be part of a State which has a long and storied history of standing up for the common worker's right to fair pay, safe working conditions and clean air and water. Now they are leading the charge along with California and others who are creating the new energy economy. Things always weren't good for the amazing people who built the railroads, milled the lumber and cut the giant trees. Yes, I still gather wood in a gas powered pickup (but my daily driver gets twice the MPG and we have a deposit on a Tesla Model 3). Sometimes there are not great options available or they are unaffordable. Real change happens when those options become so affordable and practical that the majority are taking advantage of them without even considering there is another way to do it.

    There are always silly arguments against those trying to create change for the better. My favorite is "If you really think consumption of fossil fuels is causing global warming that will eventually be catastrophic for humans, then why don't you quit driving and heating your home with fossil fuels while I go about my life not worrying about it (because I choose to believe the science is just plain wrong)." Silliest argument ever because there will always be ignorant people who don't accept science or reality or believe that a magic deity in "the heavens" will take care of everything so we don't have to worry. Oh, the folly of mankind. I understand how that kind of backwards thought could have prevailed in the dark ages but, in the age of instantaneous communication and information? We know that mankind's biggest challenges are not solved by a few who voluntarily sacrifice for those who are selfish. It takes a concerted effort to improve the world.

    I guess some people just want to sit back and be critical of those who are taking the youngest generation into consideration and work towards making the world a better place. Some things never change. There were freeloaders even in ancient times.
     
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  14. RFarm

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    After making my post a few days ago, I have been thinking about what I posted and how I may have took a leap without properly explaining the thought process. Burning wood is carbon neutral and this is supported by science. Even the smokiest smoke dragon is carbon neutral, a forest fire is carbon neutral. What you say? Well, look at it this way - carbon on the surface of the planet is fixed, meaning no new carbon is created without an equal amount of carbon being consumed. Wood for example is stored carbon from the air and soil, when we burn it, the carbon returns back to air and soil.to be absorbed by plants again. This goes on and on forever. This is the carbon cycle. this is the same for the hydrologic cycle, no new water is ever created on earth. The same water from primordial earth is still being used today. The water cycles from the ground to air over and over and over. No new water comes in from space or from the core of the earth.

    The rub occurs with carbon when we introduce fossil fuels into the argument. Liquid and gaseous petro fuels are not native to the surface of the earth and are not from dead dinosaurs or plants. Oil and gas are Abiogenic, formed by inorganic means rather than by the decomposition of organisms. Oil and gas did not originate from fossil deposits, but have instead originated from deep carbon deposits, present since the formation of the earth Additionally, it has been suggested that hydrocarbons may have arrived on Earth from solid bodies such as comets and asteroids from the late formation of the Solar System carrying hydrocarbons with them. Now burning liquid and gaseous petroleum products is disrupting with the carbon cycle by adding new carbon to the mix. Is this good or bad - who knows. But it is a man made phenomena and like any disruption - there will be consequences of some kind.
     
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  15. begreen

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    That's a new one on me. Geology seems to back up ancient sediments pretty well. No dinosaurs maybe, but decayed organic matter sediments seems well supported. That's not so say that there aren't abiogenic deposits too, but this is a new field with lots of hypothesis. In the meantime there's a lot of coal to account for that strangely often has fossilized plants in it.
    https://www.livescience.com/33087-how-oil-form-petroleum.html
     
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  16. bholler

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    What source says that? Pretty much everything I have read says it was formed by organic matter. And yes there are lots of sources that claim burning wood is carbon neutral. But there are just as many if not more that say it clearly is not. Most define it as carbon lean because as I said it is much better than burning fossil fuels but not truly carbon neutral.
     
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  17. begreen

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  18. Seasoned Oak

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    Probably the average wood burner is doing more than the average person when it comes to conservation. Were certainly not consuming the amount of fossil fuels to heat our homes as the average person is. I used to have 12 garbage bags a week. Now i recycle 80 % to 90% . Only other person i know doing this is you guys and my son. So we're trying to live in the modern world but not be as wasteful and resource dependent as most people.
     
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  19. bholler

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    Well I use very little fossil fuels to heat my house. We both have fuel efficient vehicles. I also have ones that are not but they get limited use. Other than the work trucks but not to much option there. I have recycled my whole life it is much easier now than it used to be though which is great. No I dont live in a tiny house and I am not about to do so. But I do my part with in reason. Where we live biking everywhere simply is not a feasible option. When we lived in the city I did ride my bike allot because it was feasible. Not everyone is going to be perfect but if more people went as far as those like me did we would be in allot better shape. I am very impressed with what begreen does but at this point in my life I cant go that far with it. But we are getting better and better every year.
     
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  20. begreen

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    Every small bit counts. Lots of small steps can add up to giant strides. Now that I am retired I have joined a local zero waste movement to be more effective. This weekend we will be holding a fix-it workshop where we put fixers together with folks that need things fixed. Last time we looked at over 70 items and fixed over 50 of them. That's 50+ items that will not end up in the landfill and will have an extended life. All repairs are free labor, the fixee just provides the parts if necessary with a quick run to the hardware store.
     
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  21. sportbikerider78

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    So is it enough? If everyone lived like you, (still vacationing, still living in a normal house, still burning fossil fuels, still using plastic, still consuming consumer goods, still driving, still using electronics for pleasure/information) and living a modern 1st world existence...would climate change be reversed?
     
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  22. Seasoned Oak

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    No its not.
    due to several factors. Increasing population , amount of greenhouse gas already in the air and no way will everyone do this. Most will not. Put me down as not optimistic at all but trying to do my part,plus there is a financial reward. Recycling saves a good deal of cash with very little effort.
     
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  23. Ashful

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    'splain this, please. From my perspective, recycling may be the only activity that is less financially sensible than processing your own firewood. Now, I do both, but not because they're financially beneficial to me.
     
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  24. begreen

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    If you are paying for garbage hauling then recycling can reduce the quantity of garbage and thus may drop the rate, particularly if the service is tiered for quantity or frequency of pickup.
     
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  25. begreen

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