Greetings! New 30NC and an Introduction

[BCC_Burner]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Ben, for non-digital reference. I've been reading the forum for several months now and decided to register now that I'm actually going to be heating with wood again.

I heated a house in the central Adirondacks for a couple winters with a pre-EPA catalytic Vermont Castings Defiant, but that was back in the land of hardwoods.

I live in the Wasatch Mountains above Salt Lake City where our burning season is long (usually early-October to mid-May) and the snow piles up deep. My house sees around 350-375 inches in an average winter.

I have a roughly 1400 square foot cabin, which was originally built in 1930, and was updated with insulation and internal plumbing in the early 1980's. I have lived up in the mountains in a similar location for the last 2 years but this will be my first winter heating with wood up here.

The house I am renting previously had a fireplace insert that had cracked from overfiring and was vented into a 8x13 clay lined flue inside an external fieldstone chimney. My landlord planned to replace it with a Vermont Castings Resolute from the late 1970's, as I had brought the problem with the insert to his attention. Not being content with this alternative, I proposed buying a stove if he would do and pay for the installation, and he agreed.

I purchased an Englander 30-NCH which is currently being installed in the house. While it is more stove than needed for the square footage, I want the heat because the insulation isn't the best, and I work full time, so I need the burn times of a large firebox. I'll probably have my first burn in fire this weekend to start getting the paint cured while I can still have the windows open comfortably.

My landlord is installing it with a stovepipe running vertically for about 4 feet, bending 90 degrees through the stone chimney, into a T, then up the existing flue with 6 inch liner. I believe he is using uninsulated liner, as he balked at the cost of using insulated. Total chimney length will be around 20 feet. I will be installing a Vacu-Stack chimney cap to help deal with the strong winds and strange airflow we get here in the canyon sometimes.

I'm thrilled to be heating with wood again and to be doing it with a clean burning stove. I'll be burning primarily Lodgepole, which I have 5 cords of, in addition to 1 cord of Silver Maple and 1 cord of Apple.

This place has already proven to be a great resource and I'm looking forward to getting involved with the community.

 

[begreen]

Welcome and congrats. Sounds like a good plan. Your t-shirt should be coming soon.

How is the wood supply for this season's burning?

 

[BCC_Burner]

The wood supply is looking good so far. I wasn't able to collect much over the spring/summer, so unfortunately I'll largely be dependent on buying wood this first year. Luckily there is quite a bit of dead standing lodgepole pine around these parts that is available well seasoned. My lodgepole is sitting at around 16% MC right now, the Silver maple is between 18-20% and the apple is around 21%. The trickiest bit of planning is finding good sheltered spots for my racks, as the snow will be 4-7 feet deep for much of the winter.

 

[BrotherBart]

Welcome and here's yer shirt.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Welcome and here's yer shirt.

View attachment 111788

one of these days i gotta contact cafe press about this

 

[jharkin]

You made a good call on that 30. The resolute would have been way undersized to heat 1500sq in the mountains. My dad burns one (resolute) in a 1600sqft 1960s vintage house in CT with all new windows etc and its a struggle. He rarely can get the second floor above 60F in winter.

 

[begreen]

And here's your snow shovel. It sounds like you may need it.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Oh I have a variety of shovels in a couple different places, in addition to a big 2 stage Ariens snowblower. Luckily our snow tends to have a low water content, so it isn't too much of a bear to clear the driveway.

My landlord was originally planning to run stovepipe directly into the 8x13 exterior flue to vent the stove, but after doing some research here and consulting with several local chimney sweeps, I realized this was going to result in poor draft and excess creosote buildup. At first he was pretty adamant about not running a liner, but I was able to convince him he needed to for safety reasons. Without happening across this place I never would have batted an eye at his planned installation.

 

[begreen]

That 12x12" flue would have killed draft. If the landlord has any question, refer to the manual. The stove requires a 28 sq in cross-sectional chimney. A 12 x 12 has about 121 sq in. or over 4 times the cross-sectional area which is a complete no-no.

"The area of the chimney liner must also be equal to or greater than the area of the flue collar on the stove. If the area of the flue is greater than the collar, it should never be more than two and 1/2 (2.5) times greater."

EPA stoves like good draft and dry wood. Give them a little air with this combo and you'll be nice and warm.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Yeah, that definitely would not have worked well, especially considering the chimney is external. All I could think of is enormous creosote deposition as the smoke instantly cooled and slowed down hitting that cold flue.

Going to see what sort of progress he made this afternoon on my way home today. I move in for good on Friday, and this weekend we're supposed to have highs in the mid 40's and low's in the mid 30's with showers (snow level around 10,000 feet). Sure hope he has the install finished by then.

I knew the Resolute would have been woefully inadequate for the job, not to mention the issue with finding replacement parts for a 35 year old stove. I am able to work from home 1-1.5 days a week, but the other weekdays I'm gone for 9-11 hours, so I need a large enough firebox to at least have some coals waiting for me when I get home from work. There is electric baseboard and a propane wall heater in the cabin as well, but both of those fuels are expensive, especially in a potentially drafty cabin. Buying wood this year will be a bigger expense than in the future, but if I'm going to pay good money for heat, I want to place to be WARM. Nothing worse than a huge electric bill to keep the house at 64.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

im happy you were able to convince your landlord about the reline, i suspect you would have been fighting it a bit with that huge flue.

the 30 should be adequate to keep the chill off up there for ya.

thanks also for having confidence in my product, i truly believe you will love it

 

[Huntindog1]

Your gonna have to send us pics of the snow from time to time.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Your gonna have to send us pics of the snow from time to time.

agreed! would LOVE to see some shots of the Wasatch mountains, part of me envies you for living in that area , but the golfer in me wont let me move there

that said, humor us PLEEZE! ! !

 

[DuelburnJake]

I would love to see pics.. I used to live in a cabin in Montana... moved back east in 10. I miss the rockies esp in the winter!

 

[BCC_Burner]

I'll be sure to post some pictures once I get fully settled in. The place is still a bit of a work in progress, and it seems the landlord didn't make much headway on the stove install yesterday.

Anyway, it is a neat little place. I'm right down the road from 2 ski areas and can snowshoe/ski/hike right out my back door. Pretty amazing lifestyle opportunity considering I have a 9-5 job in Salt Lake City.

I have my 30 on the pedestal, and I'm considering getting some magnets to control the doghouse air intake a bit. I guess I'll have to see how it draws and burns without them, but I'm thinking that with a full load of Lodgepole it could run away if there isn't a way to dampen it down even further. I suppose we'll have to wait and see, but fall comes on quickly around here and within 3 weeks I will be burning full time.

 

[fossil]

Welcome. You'll love the stove. I'd come to visit, but I'm fresh out of bottled oxygen. Rick

 

[Jags]

Welcome to the forum, Ben. Sounds like you get a real case of "winter" up there. At least you will have the firepower to keep the place warm. 7 feet of snow ain't for this guy.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Well, I just got off the phone with the landlord, and apparently the re-line is off the table again. The flue is actually 8x13, not 12x12. I'm pretty unhappy about this change in plans, as I think the draw will be negatively effected by the oversized, exterior chimney. I guess we will see how it burns, and I may have to hem and haw until he does the install properly.

The cross sectional area still seems much too large for venting this woodstove, or at least for getting the most out of it. I pointed out the cross sectional area issue and told him to refer to the owner's manual, but he claimed that several "experts" he spoke to told him that the flue size shouldn't matter.

Is this going to work at all or am I going to be left with a smoky, poorly drawing stove?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Well, I just got off the phone with the landlord, and apparently the re-line is off the table again. The flue is actually 8x13, not 12x12. I'm pretty unhappy about this change in plans, as I think the draw will be negatively effected by the oversized, exterior chimney. I guess we will see how it burns, and I may have to hem and haw until he does the install properly.

The cross sectional area still seems much too large for venting this woodstove, or at least for getting the most out of it. I pointed out the cross sectional area issue and told him to refer to the owner's manual, but he claimed that several "experts" he spoke to told him that the flue size shouldn't matter.

Is this going to work at all or am I going to be left with a smoky, poorly drawing stove?

its still over 100 sq inches of cross sectional value. his "experts" ain't experts, they just think they are apparently hell, feel free to "drop my name" on him if you think it will help i build that stove so "I'm the expert" when it comes to MY product. tell him that you have been in contact with the senior technician at the factory and that he (i) strongly advised against installing this unit to that flue without a liner at your altitude

refer him to the NFPA 211 in the section which specifically states cross sectional value of the flue should be no more than 2X the cross sectional value of the flue collar for an exterior chimney and no more than 3X the cross sectional value for an interior chimney this cross sectional value (104 sq in.) is more than 3X the cross sectional value of a 6 inch collar. also, literally EVERY code issued for woodstoves starts off with "must be installed according to manufacturers instructions" he needs to read page 4 and 5 of this stove's manual, here, print him off a copy http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/30-NC.pdf

its gonna be easier for him to do the liner install before the stove is installed than after the fact

im not going to say "it cannot work", but i will say the odds of it doing what its intended to do are extremely long with a marginal flue system especially at the altitude you will be at. point is when you do something like this you want to do it in such a way that you have the largest probability of success, lest you violate the rule of "measure twice, cut once.