Hampton HI300 Insert, Opening too large

[b-mac]

I have a house that was built in 1940. The fireplace is rather large (I think) it is 32" high. My new Hampton HI300 wood burning insert is only 30" high. All the other measurements are good. I will be having this installed and I told them about the size diiference and they said no problem as they can install a sheet metal trim piece. I am not happy with this as the insert is all cast iron. So I want to know how I can go about resizing the opening by the 2 - 3 inches without using sheetmetal.

Can I simply remove the top black trim and install a 2 inch taller peice so that it drops into the box opening to make up the difference? This would be great as I hate the look of the black marble on there. I want to replace all the black tiles as well anyway. Or could I installed a 2-3 inch cement block base to have the new insert sit on it and trim it off on the front edge?

Any ideas? Am I thinking on the right page or way off here?

Here is a picture.

Thanks for the input.

 

[elkimmeg]

Have you read the manuial? You might encounter other issues with clearances to combustiables. You may need a heat shield

 

[Tendencies]

I had the same problem with my VC Dutchwest insert, the installers made a larger surround and all is well. Much cheaper that way and also keeps me outta clearance problems as mentioned by Elk..

T

 

[b-mac]

I did read the manual, I am not installing it myself, but the fireplace company will. The clearences are all right on. They need a min. 21.5" height for the install. I want to drop mine from 32 to 28-30. I think if I can drop the opening by 2 inches or so that would be nice.

Maybe I will have a some new marble peices cut to be 2 inches taller on that front edge and that will clean up the install.

Thanks for the replies

Bryan

 

[Choppedliver]

Elk is talking about the clearances to combustiables on page 7 of your owners manual (b,c and d= you need clearance to your wood mantle top and sides) from your picture it looks like its going to be close

 

[b-mac]

Well here are the measurements, as I said before they are all ok, one thing I am not sure on though is the hearth.

A= I have about 6 feet before a side wall on either side, so not an issue
B= 32" from the top of the insert (not the frame) to the underside of the mantel shelf.The frame is 8 1/2 inches taller than the insert.
C= 19" again from the top of the insert not frame to the strat of the wood on the mantel.
D= 14" again insert to the wall, NOT the edge of frame.
E= 16" this is the min they call for, but here is my problem, mine is flush in the hardwood floors, so they want to see 19.5" How do I resolve this?

Here is a picture of what I have so far.

Thanks for the input.

Install date is the 18th of oct.

 

[b-mac]

That was 2 .25 inches of cement down there, it is all removed and read for tile. I need to know what to do about the 16" depth of the hearth though, I will need to cut into the hardwood floors to extend it.

All the walls are plaster by the way if that even matters.

 

[wg_bent]

Somehow I don't understand the problem....The sheetmetal surround is intended to deal with the fact that the insert isn't the same size as the fireplace exactly, nor would you ever want it to be.

The sheet metal surround will meet the black part and look quite nice....What did I miss?

 

[b-mac]

The insert surround does what you said, BUT in my case my height of my original opening was 32 inches, versus the inserts frame of 30" Therefore I decided to reduce the opening and re-tile the surround and hearth.

 

[wg_bent]

The insert surround does what you said, BUT in my case my height of my original opening was 32 inches, versus the inserts frame of 30" Therefore I decided to reduce the opening and re-tile the surround and hearth.

Ahhh....I see. I'd raise the insert and put in a false floor in the fireplace...Then build a small hearth. I built a heath in front of the 0-clearance fireplace and it came out quite nice. We all sit on it a lot in front of the Oz.

 

[elkimmeg]

Has this dealer done right to this buyer? They are attempting to install the Hampton into a 1940 factory built fireplace. I suggest he reads page 6 of the installation manual

The factory-built fireplace must be listed per
UL 127 or ULC S610.
In 1940 there were no UL listings. I doubt there was zero clearance. There is no legal way this Hampton can be installed in your current setup

There are clearance issues read page 7 if molding protrude 1.5” , then clearance issues are present also thermal conductivity issues concerning the wood floor in front of the unit. The clearance issues and floor protection do not come into play as the Hampton hi 300 cannot be installed in the current location. The surround issue is also a non-issue, as the Hampton cannot be installed there.

Your dealer is not doing you a service by illegally installing a stove that cannot meet the basic requirements of its listing. . You might as well get your money back and find an insert that can be installed into a non UL 127 factory built fireplace. Your may get angry at me, but I am trying to prevent you and your family from a potential disaster. Do you know what is behind that fireplace? How close to combustibles is it.

 

[b-mac]

Has this dealer done right to this buyer? They are attempting to install the Hampton into a 1940 factory built fireplace. I suggest he reads page 6 of the installation manual

The factory-built fireplace must be listed per
UL 127 or ULC S610.
In 1940 there were no UL listings. I doubt there was zero clearance. There is no legal way this Hampton can be installed in your current setup

There are clearance issues read page 7 if molding protrude 1.5” , then clearance issues are present also thermal conductivity issues concerning the wood floor in front of the unit. The clearance issues and floor protection do not come into play as the Hampton hi 300 cannot be installed in the current location. The surround issue is also a non-issue, as the Hampton cannot be installed there.



Your dealer is not doing you a service by illegally installing a stove that cannot meet the basic requirements of its listing. . You might as well get your money back and find an insert that can be installed into a non UL 127 factory built fireplace. Your may get angry at me, but I am trying to prevent you and your family from a potential disaster. Do you know what is behind that fireplace? How close to combustibles is it.

Can you explain what a Factory Built fireplace is? I am thrown off by this. I thought this is considered a Masonry fireplace. Maybe I didn't make that clear in the first post? It is all brick except the mantel. There is brick under the hardwood floor as well.

What wood floor in front of the fireplace? The Hearth is cement and tile, the sides of the Hearth are within the the manual specs for the space.

Like I said before it is a masonry fireplace. They are installing a full stainless liner with it. I had a local fireplace company out to check EVERYTHING. I was told the fireplace was in great shape and ready fpr the winter season. We just decided to make it more efficiant by having an insert installed. This company (grass roots energy) has been doing this for a very long time. I really appreciate the inmput but I think there has been some mis-understandings, most likely due to me. I hope this changes things.

Thank you

 

[elkimmeg]

Given your current setup and seeing wood sub flooring under the removed tile ,I assumed it was factory built. NFPA compliance would require solid masonry hearth extending from your fire box 20”. There should be no wood under the hearth area. If not a factory built fireplace then the presence of wood indicates it is not NFPA 211 compliant. That being so it cannot be installed in that location. If you are comfortable with your retailer and installers expertise then so be it. I am pointing out potential issues that were probably missed. I did not fall of the turnip cart yesterday. I am a national certified inspector. I give seminars alerting fellow inspectors to looks for such installation discrepancies. One such seminar in 1997, was presented to the Eastern states building inspectors convention held in Springfield MA. (Eastern states, is all states east of the Mississippi)

 

[wg_bent]

Interesting catch Elk. Be interesting to see what's under the floor of that fireplace.

 

[Roospike]

Yep , Ole' ELKer is our resident Hearth.com pitbull. Get-um Elk - attack ! ...........Some times we have to chain him up when he gets too aggressive. ;-)

 

[Jill L]

Has this dealer done right to this buyer? They are attempting to install the Hampton into a 1940 factory built fireplace. <snip why install would not pass code>

Wow. Why does there seem to be so many dealers/installers who are willing to shaft either the consumer or the safety process or who basically know so little in the stove industry? Is it just the nature of hiring a 'contractor' in general, and not specific to the stove industry? ( I know Im still waiting for a plumber to come back and clean up his tangled mess he left hanging in my joists, and a flooring guy to return to sand out his rush job mistakes ---- but I won't be holding my breath on either of them. ;-) )

Over the last week or so i have read well over 200+ threads in this forum, and many, many of the customer feedback reviews for stove dealers on hearth.com too.

There seems to be just loads of unhappy negative customer satisfaction out there from reading the content at this forum and my own experiences over the last month or so. I realize that Im painting a pretty broad stroke over an entire industry, and there are some great products and some great dealers and manufacturers that are out there.

Obviously anyone participating in this forum is not part of the industry problem because they are here to learn and improve and educate, but you all are not the businesses consumers have to worry about. This forum and you all are part of the solution the way I see it! (and a huge thanks for that! This site is literally a godsend after my own personal interactions with a few local dealers who I found to be totally inept in answering even basic questions about installing a pellet insert.)

Yet, today alone on the forum, and before half the day has passed, Elk caught a contractor and dealer ripping off the end consumer, and b-mac's dealer is about to ding him for a job that has no chance in hades of passing code when finished. Sheesh.


Anyway, just a 2 cent, 'for what it's worth' observation and grumbling from the peanut gallery, wondering why my guard has to be up 24/7 when trying to purchase a fair product and fair services at a fair price. :coolhmm:

Jill

PS Im not trying to hijack b-macs thread here ( Ill start a new thread and ask the mod to move over posts if the thread ends up off topic to b-mac's OP.)

 

[b-mac]

Given your current setup and seeing wood sub flooring under the removed tile ,I assumed it was factory built. NFPA compliance would require solid masonry hearth extending from your fire box 20”. There should be no wood under the hearth area. If not a factory built fireplace then the presence of wood indicates it is not NFPA 211 compliant. That being so it cannot be installed in that location. If you are comfortable with your retailer and installers expertise then so be it. I am pointing out potential issues that were probably missed. I did not fall of the turnip cart yesterday. I am a national certified inspector. I give seminars alerting fellow inspectors to looks for such installation discrepancies. One such seminar in 1997, was presented to the Eastern states building inspectors convention held in Springfield MA. (Eastern states, is all states east of the Mississippi)

Please explain this to me, I removed the tile, under the tile was 2.5 inches of cement. Of coarse there is a wood subfloor UNDER the 2.5 inches of cement. From what you are telling me I can't even have that as a subfloor? You also state I need to have the 16 inch hearth exteneded to 20" even though the manual states 18"inches, but the sales brochure states 19.5 if flush with the floor. So I have 3 different numbers. I have no problem extended it if it is properly done, but you are telling me thare is no way to extend. period. How can this be, unless you simply assume I will take the hardwood out and place some tile on the sub-floor. I know you need to have a min. 1inch non combustionable material under the tile which can be done with cement board correct?

Also the manual states that if I RAISE the insert 3.5 inches then NO floor protecttion is needed. Well I have 16" and I would of coarse then leave that. I have 2.5 inches of non-combustionable material under the hearth. What are my options here. I know it can be done, and I know it can be done right which is what I want to do. I think the best bet at this time is to raise it 3.5 to 4 inches which also resolves my height issue and I will be legal and safe correct?

I am not trying to press any buttons, but simply trying to understand. I have NO experience in this area and that is why I am asking questions so that I can learn.

Thanks for the input.

 

[elkimmeg]

My post were to get you asking, to get you aware. Getting you educated and involved. Also pointing out not to drink ever once of koolaid dealer or installer are telling you. Getting you to read you manual. Getting yourself educated as to what is required and to be expected, for the safest possible install. Personally I like the Hampton I sure you will too. You know a lot more about how it should be installed now the a week back good luck. I hope you will share your experiences here so that other can learn from them. If you have questions at least these answers are not costing you

BTW the NFPA 211 can be read on line

 

[b-mac]

Well I did infact read through the NFPA 211 document, and from what I understood of it, if your FP is less than 6 feet then you need a 16" hearth. So once again I am stuck, I can't seem to get the coreect number that applies to me, so I went ahead and extended the hearth to 30 inches. I know this is a safe size and it is much better proportioned to the mantel. I have to finish the tile work and then I will post pictures. This was a lot of work, I had to remove hardwood floor that was original to the house (66 years old) and then remove the subfloor and then lower it so it was able to hold 1.5 inches of cement board, thinset and tile. All seems have been caulked with fireproof caulk so it should be good to go. If not well I did my best from the information I was able to get. I can't imagine there being a problem with this.

I just hope my tile is set before the install on wednesday!

 

[BrotherBart]

Keep us posted. I just saw that insert "in the flesh" today. Nice stove.

 

[b-mac]

Well the stove went in without a hitch, I have to finish up my tile work, but all in all looks great. I should have completed pictures over the week-end.

The installers had one small fire, and told me to let her cool down to room temp, and repaet the process about 5 times before we have a real fire. so one down 4 to go!

 

[begreen]

Congratulations b-mac. I'm looking forward to seeing her in action.