Hampton HI300 Users...Is N/S Loading Better??

[jscs.moore]

Hey Guys,
I'm in my first season of burning with my new Hampton HI300...I'm not burning 24/7 just nights and weekends. I've noticed on occasion when I get a full load in the firebox (stacked E/W) I have had a problem with splitz rolling up against the glass door. This can make it a real pain when trying to add splitz or push the coals to the back of the firebox. I had a situation a few weeks ago where I had half burnt split fall out when I opened the glass door. I quickly threw it back in (wearing welding gloves) but then I had a lot of coals on the ash lip & door area and had a hard time closing it??
Is North/South loading a better way to burn in the HI300?? I just assumed East/West was the way to go...I don't think the owners manual recommends either way?

 

[velvetfoot]

Yes.

 

[jscs.moore]

Thanks Velvetfoot...so is N/S the way you always load the firebox and do you find it a better way to burn??

 

[velvetfoot]

Yes. No thinking or worrying involved. I had a Quad 2700i insert that I HAD to load E/W, and N/S is so much better. One thing I just thought of is that you can put a little piece of fire starter at the bottom of stack of wood because of the way it's pointed.

 

[jophysx]

N/S is definitely the way to go with the HI-300 IMHO. The first year or two that I had the stove I tried it both ways, but I run exclusively N/S now. I like to stuff the box pretty full, and I was always worried about a log rolling down and hitting the glass with E/W loading.

One thing I have been experimenting with on N/S loading is the following. You see many people here on hearth.com talking about "raking the coals forward" and placing a big split E/W in the back. Then they fill the rest of the load either continuing E/W, or switching to N/S. The idea is that big split in the back is not sitting on any hot coals and it will not start burning until later in the burn cycle, prolonging the burn time. I do it slightly differently. I rake the coals to one side, place a big split N/S on the opposite side, and load up the rest of the box also N/S. I can't say that this makes a big difference, but I think it does even out the heat production over the burn cycle maybe a little.

In defense of E/W loading, I think you can get a slightly longer burn time that way due to airflow patterns. But it's not a huge effect.

-Jim

 

[velvetfoot]

When I do this, I use a machete!

 

[egclassic]

I am on my 4th year burning with my HI300, and I have tried all the various ways to load the stove. I always seem to revert back to N/S as well. But I'm still learning how to run this thing. I've had it get away from me on several occasions, but I've learned that it was because I was in too big of a hurry trying to get it settled in, usually for the overnight burn.

 

[smmjam12]

I am in my third year with this stove and I ussally alternate with the first row being N/S the next row E/W and the thirs and ussally last row N/S. I have seen pics of stoves that are stuffed in one direction to the top of the stove. I have always been reluctant to load that much wood as I am worried about a runaway.

 

[velvetfoot]

Don't worry, be happy.

 

[zambien]

With dry wood and a full stove my hi300 tries to run away. It will quickly get above 700 even with the epa hole plugged. Last year I had a lot of late nights with the fan on high waiting for the stove to settle down so I could set the fan to low. Now I just load up 30 minutes before bed and get the stove dialed in and leave the fan on high all night.

I will need to clean my chimney more often now but the house is warmer in the morning and I'm getting enough sleep.

 

[baysideburner]

With dry wood and a full stove my hi300 tries to run away. It will quickly get above 700 even with the epa hole plugged. Last year I had a lot of late nights with the fan on high waiting for the stove to settle down so I could set the fan to low. Now I just load up 30 minutes before bed and get the stove dialed in and leave the fan on high all night.

I will need to clean my chimney more often now but the house is warmer in the morning and I'm getting enough sleep.

what are u doing different now that u didnt do> is it just the fan setting? and where is the epa hole i want to plug mine too i have a very strong draft. otherwise i also always load that stove n/s.very seldom times i actually had the air all the way in and still had tremndous amount of secondaries thats always nervous moments.

 

[cableman]

what are u doing different now that u didnt do> is it just the fan setting? and where is the epa hole i want to plug mine too i have a very strong draft. otherwise i also always load that stove n/s.very seldom times i actually had the air all the way in and still had tremndous amount of secondaries thats always nervous moments.

For the hole he is talking about, its on the right side as if the damper rod was on the right side. Remove the fan and you will see it, i stuck a bolt in mine. With damper closed all the way there is still a little notch that doesnt get covered. Also check the door gasket, i didnt realize the bottom of mine was not sealing all the way.
I struggled to get my shelburne to 500 while this insert will hit 700 shut down no problem

 

[zambien]

For the hole he is talking about, its on the right side as if the damper rod was on the right side. Remove the fan and you will see it, i stuck a bolt in mine. With damper closed all the way there is still a little notch that doesnt get covered. Also check the door gasket, i didnt realize the bottom of mine was not sealing all the way.
I struggled to get my shelburne to 500 while this insert will hit 700 shut down no problem

Yep, I covered my EPA hole up with a fridge magnet. It did make a little bit of a difference but the stove will still try to run away. I'm burning high BTU (BL, hickory, oak, a little osage orange) dry (15-23% MC) wood this year so that is probably why it can still get out of control with the fan on low. Here are some more details on my overnight burns...

Rake the coals forward. Load the stove and let it warm up to around 550-600 slowly shutting down the damper over that time. Here is how I load based on outside temps:

If outside temps going below 20 at night:
N/S load as packed as I can get it. Damper open 1.25 inch overnight. Fan on high.

Else:
E/W load mostly packed. At the very front I won't stack it high because the log will roll forward and make a mess when you open the door. Damper open 1 inch. Fan on high.

You get more heat out of the stove with a N/S load since you can pack more in. I open the damper a bit more because there will be too many coals left for a reload in the morning if I don't open it a bit more. I have run it overnight with the damper closed more but I find that there are too many coals and that the glass is pretty dirty because of the fan being on high and cooling the stove down more. If I run the fan on low I can shut the damper down to 1/4 to 1/2 inch and it all works out fine with nice clean glass... but then you have the problem of the stove overfiring (or staying up for 3 hours after loading with the fan on high so you can set it to low when it settles down). My experience is that these Hampton HI300s (and maybe Regencys too?) really like to overfire with a good load of wood. Do most other stoves have this same problem?

Speaking of overfiring... is it normal for an HI300's stove top to be slightly rounded and higher in the front than the back? I'm talking about the firebox, not the actual top of the enclosure. I noticed this a few days ago on mine. I guess it could be a symptom of the stove getting too hot last year with the low fan setting overnight. If I shut the damper down all the way once the stove is really rolling the secondaries will go insane for about 45 minutes and then the fire will smolder and I'll have black glass pretty soon.

My door is closed tight... so much so that I managed to break my handle off last year. Was using a set of vise grips last year to open and close the latch for a while. When I got my new handle I adjusted it so that it isn't quite as tight but it still takes a good amount of force to close the stove door. It passes the dollar bill test.

It sure would be nice if Hampton/Regency came out with a temperature based high/low fan control. E.g. - temp goes above 550, fan to high, below, fan to low. It really is needed on these stoves.

 

[cableman]

I havnt used fan on hight yet. Most ive put in maybe 7 splits. Ill split my new stuff much bigger cause i think that will help this stove alot. I shut mine down all the way with fan on low and once it settles in ill open it just a bit. I put a stove top therm left corner inside where air comes out, while i think its out of control it only measures 600-700 for a while.
My glass always gets cloudy on the sides, middle stays clear unless wife screws it up!

 

[KB007]

N/S all the way. Except when I'm burning some of the splits that my "eyeballing" was off that are too long to go N/S. Then I put a couple E/W on the bottom and go N/S on top. Since that year I now use a measuring stick instead of eyeballing the lengths to get perfect N/S lengths.

 

[zambien]

I havnt used fan on hight yet. Most ive put in maybe 7 splits. Ill split my new stuff much bigger cause i think that will help this stove alot. I shut mine down all the way with fan on low and once it settles in ill open it just a bit. I put a stove top therm left corner inside where air comes out, while i think its out of control it only measures 600-700 for a while.
My glass always gets cloudy on the sides, middle stays clear unless wife screws it up!

I have my therm in the same spot. I also use an IR one to spot check. I don't get cloudy glass much at all but I could see that happening with your method since the fire probably isn't getting enough combustion air. Are you sure that the fire isn't going out of control once you open it up a bit? The issue I find is that once those secondaries start going there is no stopping them and the stove temp continues to climb unless the fan is set to high.

I'm going to pull the fan off and make sure my fridge magnet didn't move or melt.

Regardless if you have dry high BTU wood my experience has been that running the stove open a bit more with the fan on high will give you the most heat without overfiring. My house is 2100 sq ft finished with a 700 sq ft unfinished basement (split level home) built in 1979. I had the seal test done by BGE last year and there were some improvements to be made but the air changes per hour were low enough (5.5 hour) that I was concerned sealing it more would make it difficult for the stove to get enough air. Prior to us having the stove the open fireplace couldn't get enough air and after a few hours of burning you would start to get back-puffing due to the negative air pressure so we would have to open a window. Not a problem with the stove and I sure don't want it to become a problem.

I'm only heating the finished 2100 sq feet but since that is on the high end of what the stove can handle on really cold days (single digits) I have to get as much out of the stove as possible to keep the house above 66 degrees. Of course it is always warmer in the stove room.

 

[cableman]

Yup those secondaries go crazy thats why i shut her down until i see them more relaxed. I try to pack tight and shut down faster and that seems to control the violent secondaries.
All in all its a learning curve and i dont really think 700 is over firing it which again im really more around the 600,s or less anyway. My liner is 16' also.
Im 2000sq and i can see my house dropping once we really get the cold, i know i have some insulation fixing to do!
So far i load n/s also

 

[jophysx]

The only time I have problems with the fire getting out of control on my HI-300 is when I reload with a full load too early in the burn cycle. If I reload with the glass temperature above 400F and stuff it full, it's almost always a scary ride and I have to watch it close and throttle back the air aggressively. If I wait until the glass is down around 250-350 it's usually no problem.

I do wish the stove was a little more controllable. I am considering opening up the stove and modifying the push rod mechanism so that the plate covers the air opening completely when fully closed. I think this is what's really needed. Last year I covered the "EPA hole" mentioned in previous posts on this thread, and at the time I thought that was the source for air when the push rod is 100% closed. But now I am pretty sure that hole is irrelevant. It's just a knockout in case you want to move the pushrod to the opposite side and has nothing to do with regulating the air. I say this after looking through the blog by the guy who hacked his HI-300 to use a PID feedback burn-control system.

-Jim

 

[cableman]

Is there a way to get to that damper plate? I stuck a long flex light in through that right side hole and can see a small cutout that doesnt get blocked with it shut.
I found that fully open is even with the outer edge of the faceplate and the extra 1" or so does nothing, i was able to see where the damper wasnt covering hole anymore.

 

[velvetfoot]

I have to chime in and say that my HI300 is VERY controllable.

 

[cableman]

Mines pretty good too but def differant then my heartstone shelburne. Maybe cause its much deeper and runs 4 secondary tubes.

 

[zambien]

The only time I have problems with the fire getting out of control on my HI-300 is when I reload with a full load too early in the burn cycle. If I reload with the glass temperature above 400F and stuff it full, it's almost always a scary ride and I have to watch it close and throttle back the air aggressively. If I wait until the glass is down around 250-350 it's usually no problem.

I do wish the stove was a little more controllable. I am considering opening up the stove and modifying the push rod mechanism so that the plate covers the air opening completely when fully closed. I think this is what's really needed. Last year I covered the "EPA hole" mentioned in previous posts on this thread, and at the time I thought that was the source for air when the push rod is 100% closed. But now I am pretty sure that hole is irrelevant. It's just a knockout in case you want to move the pushrod to the opposite side and has nothing to do with regulating the air. I say this after looking through the blog by the guy who hacked his HI-300 to use a PID feedback burn-control system.

-Jim

That is exactly what I'm looking for. This is what you are referring to, right?

(broken link removed to http://inveninc.com/SmartStoveForum/index.php?topic=19.0)

Edit: actually I would be happy with just the auto fan low high bit. I don't mind setting the draft.

 

[zambien]

I have to chime in and say that my HI300 is VERY controllable.

What is your method for loading, turning it down, etc? How do you measure the stove temp?

 

[velvetfoot]

I follow manual, more or less. I load it N/S, open air, crack open door, use firestarter squares to get going, switch on fan to auto/low, wait til all wood is burning close door, wail a little while and close air some, wait more and close air some, etc, until about 1/4" open. I go by how it looks, and that the top isn't glowing red. Nice secondaries. I've used an IR thermometer in the past, but it's a pain, unsure that results are that meaningful, and I can't be bothered anymore.

 

[jophysx]

@velvetfoot, How tall is your chimney? Mine is about 20'. I've always felt the draft was on the high end and that's why I had control issues. Maybe not