hard decision.To install or Not.

[Alexey]

Hi everybody!
got into so strange situation:for 2 years had been saving money for a wood stove or insert, and now when i have the money i got concerned if i can get from the stove/insert what i'm expecting. In other words i doubt i will install anything at all. taking in mind stove location, air circulation,etc... just braking my head.
Folks, help me please decide what i need, if need at all. i can draw my floor plans or take pictures,, anything.i'm just going crazy..

 

[dougand3]

Sq ft of house? 1 or 2 story? Open or Segmented floorplan? Current chimney? Drawing of floorplan will help.

 

[Grisu]

What are you expecting? And when you have been saving money for that long, did you also put up some wood to dry?

 

[jeffesonm]

I would keep your eye on craigslist, classifieds section, ask friends, etc and find yourself a cheaper used stove, and see if you like it. If you get a good deal, and you like the process of cutting/splitting/stacking wood, filling the stove, burning, being warm, etc, you can sell your cheap-o stove for about what you bought it and go find a new(er) nice one.

 

[1kzwoman]

Go to a friends home with a stove on a cool damp evening. Watch them light the stove, then feel the difference in wood heat. Only thing that's better is body heat!

 

[begreen]

Go ahead and do a mind dump on us with what you know and what you want and include budget estimate. Include a floor plan sketch indicating where you'd like to put the stove.

 

[Alexey]

Sq ft of house? 1 or 2 story? Open or Segmented floorplan? Current chimney? Drawing of floorplan will help.

its a bungalow. 1200 main floor and 1200 basement.
main floor has 3 bedrooms ,kitchen , living +dining..
i have the old fireplace which heats only the outside not the house.( was thinking about an insert, but again.....)
and the basement : playroom ,bed room, storage .... will draw the sketch tomorrow so it becomes clear.
the whole idea was to install the insert on the main floor to be able to heat the area. then i realized it would be smarter to go for a stove in the basement. now i'm not sure if i can get the hot air upstairs. it will be easier with the sketch tomorrow.

 

[Alexey]

What are you expecting? And when you have been saving money for that long, did you also put up some wood to dry?

I'm expecting to save of course on hydro bills, using stove for at least night burns. and i do have 2 years seasoned wood ,even more...

 

[Alexey]

I would keep your eye on craigslist, classifieds section, ask friends, etc and find yourself a cheaper used stove, and see if you like it. If you get a good deal, and you like the process of cutting/splitting/stacking wood, filling the stove, burning, being warm, etc, you can sell your cheap-o stove for about what you bought it and go find a new(er) nice one.

first i have to figure out if it worth the money ,and effort, since i will have to install the liner for an insert or to install the chimney for the basement setup/

 

[Alexey]

Go to a friends home with a stove on a cool damp evening. Watch them light the stove, then feel the difference in wood heat. Only thing that's better is body heat!

their layouts are different from mine. they enjoy and don't complain.

 

[Alexey]

Go ahead and do a mind dump on us with what you know and what you want and include budget estimate. Include a floor plan sketch indicating where you'd like to put the stove.

budget is 3500. sketch is coming tomorrow. too late now.
thanks everybody for quick replies!

 

[begreen]

its a bungalow. 1200 main floor and 1200 basement.
main floor has 3 bedrooms ,kitchen , living +dining..
i have the old fireplace which heats only the outside not the house.( was thinking about an insert, but again.....)
and the basement : playroom ,bed room, storage .... will draw the sketch tomorrow so it becomes clear.
the whole idea was to install the insert on the main floor to be able to heat the area. then i realized it would be smarter to go for a stove in the basement. now i'm not sure if i can get the hot air upstairs. it will be easier with the sketch tomorrow.

It usually makes the best sense to treat the stove/insert as an area heater for the most predictable results. But some basement installs do sort of work. Is the basement insulated? Is there outdoor access to the basement or would the wood need to be carried downstairs? If the latter, it can get old quickly.

 

[velvetfoot]

A nice insert situated in your living room (?), would add ambiance as well as heat and not take that much extra floor space. It's really cozy around the fire, watching TV, or reading. Maybe electric heat for the basement, and maybe don't use the basement that much in the winter. A new chimney is expensive.

 

[Alexey]

Ok, i made some sketches of my house.


and my basement sketch.

 

[Alexey]

A nice insert situated in your living room (?), would add ambiance as well as heat and not take that much extra floor space. It's really cozy around the fire, watching TV, or reading. Maybe electric heat for the basement, and maybe don't use the basement that much in the winter. A new chimney is expensive.

yes. i was thinking about the insert at first. i still think its a great idea even though i will have to move the dining table with chairs away from the heat. but i'm afraid that my heat pump +electric furnace will interfere with the insert or stove , since i have 2 air returns just 8 and 16 feet away from the fireplace along the hallway + 1in the basement playroom and 1 in the basement workshoop.
Moreover, i doubt i can move the hot air to the master bedroom. i think the Fan option on my furnace is useless in this case.

 

[Alexey]

It usually makes the best sense to treat the stove/insert as an area heater for the most predictable results. But some basement installs do sort of work. Is the basement insulated? Is there outdoor access to the basement or would the wood need to be carried downstairs? If the latter, it can get old quickly.

Yes the basement is insulated and almost finished except one room. and i do have separate entrance to my basement through the workshop where i keep part of the wood. make my life easier a little bit.
the concern about basement install is difficulty to heat the whole house. on the sketch u can see i want to put the stove just in front of the stairs- i find it a perfect place, but will the air go up , then left (to my living room) and right( to the bedrooms )? ?

 

[dougand3]

If the basement is insulated well, you might put stove at bottom of the stairs. Then blow 1st floor colder air down into basement. Warmer air comes up to first floor. How much time (or # of people) spend in the basement? The FP is in a bad spot to heat with. But if you can line the existing FP chimney - sure would be cheaper. Maybe turn DR into LR and vice versa? Then you can ambiance away with the insert. Drolet is in Canada and makes quality stoves/inserts.

 

[Thislilfishy]

We have been looking at adding a woodstove since we bought this house three years ago. Last winter was the breaking point. I did a cost benefit analysis. Our heating last winter was $2600 and our electrical increases by $100/month through the winter thanks to additional space heaters. My goal was to eliminate all but back up propane use, and allowed for evening use of space heaters as needed.

We purchased a Napoleon 1400PL, and will have the chimney go straight up through the ceiling and the second floor, where it will be walled in with a top and bottom vent cut into the walled in portion then through the roof, hopefully scavenging some heat there as well. There will be a cast iron vent through the heated room ceiling to the second floor and two more ceiling fans. My forced air furnace runs the fan every 15 minutes even when not heating per programming. We suffer black outs here as well, so when it's well below zero, I have to power up the generator to run a space heater or two to keep a room or two warm. The woodstove is the solution that doesn't need power.

The total cost for stove install and fans vents and misc is $5200. I recently purchased enough wood to get through winter on a 24/7 burn. I estimate a 3-4 year ROI, with the bonus of emergency heating. Possibly faster depending on the severity of the next few winters. My future wood will be free as my very good neighbour works for Hydro clearing trees, and will have the trucks drop the wood in my driveway for self processing, which saves them work clearing and disposing of the wood.

So, there we are, this is why I did it, now, just waiting for the install!

Now, really sit down and figure out why you want to do this. To be honest, just because you have the money and like the romantic thought of a nice fire on a cold day, isn't a great reason. Unless you are rich of course. Woodstoves are a tonne of work, and require a lot of sweat equity that I didn't calculate. However I don't ever buy the 'how much is your time worth' argument. Nobody gets paid to sit in front of the tv instead of going out and chopping wood after work.

Ian

 

[jrems]

I would stick to a insert or woodstove in the fireplace. I don't think it would have trouble keeping 1200sqft warm. Don't sweat it. Just relax and don't second guess your original plans. I think you are overthinking it. I have a very similar single story ranch with a similar layout. It takes awhile to get the bedrooms warm but just burning after work and overnight cut my oil bill by 2/3.

 

[Nelson]

Just to add some perspective/experience. I have a 3600 sq ft home (roughly 1800 sq ft in exposed lower level and 1800 sq ft on the main level). Lower level has a masonery fireplace with a Lopi Answer insert (very small insert - I think it's 1.2 or 1.4 cu ft firebox). Stairs to the lower level are open with no door. I've been able to move heat pretty well from the lower level by placing a small fan at the bottom of the stairs and pointing it toward the stove. I put some thin strips of tissue paper on the overhang above the opening to the lower level and you can see the warm air moving up.

That said, with that small of an insert, I can probably only keep the upstairs around 67 during moderate cold and that's with feeding the stove every 3-4 hours. I'm planning to buy a larger insert (PE Summit Insert) next month and I'm hoping to see an improvement.

Overall, I agree with the other comments here. Make sure you "enjoy" the process of running of stove. It is work. However, if you enjoy it, you'll REALLY enjoy it and then it's more fun than work.

Good luck with your decision...

 

[Alexey]

If the basement is insulated well, you might put stove at bottom of the stairs. Then blow 1st floor colder air down into basement. Warmer air comes up to first floor. How much time (or # of people) spend in the basement? The FP is in a bad spot to heat with. But if you can line the existing FP chimney - sure would be cheaper. Maybe turn DR into LR and vice versa? Then you can ambiance away with the insert. Drolet is in Canada and makes quality stoves/inserts.

Mostly, where i insulated the basement walls i have 2 inch of styrofoam insulation. its only me spend evenings watching movies downstairs. its a man's cave.
it's a good idea To turn Dr to Lr, but all my wiring for speakers and tv...i was thinking about that before. the look and ambiance isn't critical for me-most important the heat it gives and moves.
i see Drolet stoves everywhere around here in the hardware stores and they are cheap comparing to the PE. the first impression -you buy what you pay for. are they really good?
by the way where should i put the floor fan to blow the air towards the stove? in the basement? or on top of the staircase blowing down?

 

[Alexey]

We have been looking at adding a woodstove since we bought this house three years ago. Last winter was the breaking point. I did a cost benefit analysis. Our heating last winter was $2600 and our electrical increases by $100/month through the winter thanks to additional space heaters. My goal was to eliminate all but back up propane use, and allowed for evening use of space heaters as needed.

We purchased a Napoleon 1400PL, and will have the chimney go straight up through the ceiling and the second floor, where it will be walled in with a top and bottom vent cut into the walled in portion then through the roof, hopefully scavenging some heat there as well. There will be a cast iron vent through the heated room ceiling to the second floor and two more ceiling fans. My forced air furnace runs the fan every 15 minutes even when not heating per programming. We suffer black outs here as well, so when it's well below zero, I have to power up the generator to run a space heater or two to keep a room or two warm. The woodstove is the solution that doesn't need power.

The total cost for stove install and fans vents and misc is $5200. I recently purchased enough wood to get through winter on a 24/7 burn. I estimate a 3-4 year ROI, with the bonus of emergency heating. Possibly faster depending on the severity of the next few winters. My future wood will be free as my very good neighbour works for Hydro clearing trees, and will have the trucks drop the wood in my driveway for self processing, which saves them work clearing and disposing of the wood.

So, there we are, this is why I did it, now, just waiting for the install!

Now, really sit down and figure out why you want to do this. To be honest, just because you have the money and like the romantic thought of a nice fire on a cold day, isn't a great reason. Unless you are rich of course. Woodstoves are a tonne of work, and require a lot of sweat equity that I didn't calculate. However I don't ever buy the 'how much is your time worth' argument. Nobody gets paid to sit in front of the tv instead of going out and chopping wood after work.

Ian

Well... when i moved 3 years ago to this house which is my first, i didn't even know about wood stoves, wood inserts, everything was new for me when i started to be interested in saving some bucks on heating cost. Last year i payed total 2300$ on electricity -that's including heating and everything.In the winter the bills are high: from Nov the 7th to Jan the 10th i got 651$ . and from Jan the 11th to March the 13th i got 723$.
I think its a lot. maybe i;m wrong...don't know. and i cannot understand how much i will save after installing the stove or insert.
Here in Montreal area - 1 Canadian cord is 80 $ delivered.i think its 1/3 of a real cord. i have already 6-7 Canadian cords seasoned well which i got from here and there by cutting some maples and elms.
lets say the insert installation will cost me 4000$. And i will cut 1/3 of a bill which is approx, 460 $ per season, that will pay off after 9 years. doesn't worth it. i need to cut at least 2/3 thus it paying off after 4. more profitable.Taking in mind that not always i have free wood it;s gonna cost me more than what i think. unfortunately im far from been rich otherwise i wouldn't come here thinking how to save here and there on that expensive electricity.

 

[begreen]

Looks like it will work. Not ideal, but a return register will help as long as the basement stairway remains open to upstairs. I would consider placing a decent sized floor register with a fusible-link damper in the living room, on the outside wall over the playroom area in the basement. It should be a decent size, like 8" x 24" or similar area depending on how the floor joists run. With the basement door open to supply the heat, cool air will return from the living room thru the new register. I'd go for a decent sized burner, probably a 3 cu ft stove.

 

[Alexey]

I would stick to a insert or woodstove in the fireplace. I don't think it would have trouble keeping 1200sqft warm. Don't sweat it. Just relax and don't second guess your original plans. I think you are overthinking it. I have a very similar single story ranch with a similar layout. It takes awhile to get the bedrooms warm but just burning after work and overnight cut my oil bill by 2/3.

what is your backup? i mean if its a forced air, doesn't it suck the smoke out of the stove then they work together?

 

[begreen]

Well, your bills are not that high considering how cold last winter was. But you will be warmer as long as you have an adequate source of good dry wood. And there is the beauty of a nice fire plus the insurance of heat when the power goes out.