Harman accentra 52 non insert help with distribution fan(and/or a source for a service manual)

[idiggplants]

long story short: need a manual and/or guide on how to diagnose different things on this unit, primarily the safety switches and distribution fan.

long story long:
some backstory:we have a classic bay 1200 that i know inside and out. beyond that, I dont have a clue about how other pstoves work, including harman's. this is my MILs pellet stove. her and her dude bought it used from some shadeball. dude she was with was legit slow. like, legit off his rocker, special slow kind of guy. no shade in his direction but i dont trust anything he did. she is no longer with the dude. so basically im coming in with zero real knowledge of the thing, and im trying to teach her how to use it and also make sure it wasnt rigged up.

where im at now:

1. from what i can tell this thing has a non-functioning distribution fan. Almost zero air coming out of it, plenty of (very hot) air going outside. the stove gets extremely hot, including in the pellet box. the exhaust air is extremely hot as well. i would assume that the way i diagnose if the distribution fan is bad would be to see if it is getting 110v to it. but is there a firebox sensor that kicks it on when it gets up to temp? or does it get 110v right from the beginning? with my 1200, i know that at these temps it is getting up to would kick in a safety and shut the auger down. im shocked that this one doesn't, which brings me to my next point...

2. i have zero confidence that the shadeball they bought it from(or the idiot dude) didnt bypass safety items to get it running.

3. i cant source a service manual for the thing. seems like 90% of these were inserts. and im not sure how much changed over the years. im very capable of running tests on the thing to confirm the fans, and other things are functioning, but i need a manual. this is the one i found on the harman website, but im not sure if it is the right model. it doesnt seem to have any diagnostics for the stove at all other than the basic "if its not lighting, make sure this is clean" type of stuff. do they make a separate service manual? im looking for things like... bypass snap #1, test resistance of this, such and such.

4. misc stuff. looks like below the info plate on the back there is a 2 lead attachment point. is this where i would attach the room sensor? and its that simple, no other parts necessary? im happy to get a general crash course on this thing. for now i just want to get it operating correctly, but eventually id like to learn how to clean it so i can teach her how to do so correctly.

i can get more pictures to narrow down the model if necessary. forgot to get one of the control board.

a million thanks folks!

 

[johneh]

Here is a manual
Hope it helps
Welcome to the forum

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installManuals/Accentra_Owners_Man_08326c.pdf

 

[idiggplants]

Here is a manual
Hope it helps
Welcome to the forum

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installManuals/Accentra_Owners_Man_08326c.pdf

thanks so much. so the only issue is... there is essentially zero info on parts, or electrical diagram, or anything to self diagnose beyond what is on page 21, which is essentially "flame to low? turn up feed rate." type of nonsense.

is there anything that would show me the electrical diagram, or a step by step true diagnostics thing? i found one for the newer insert model, but im not sure if that would be the same as this model.

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installManuals/ACC52i_I.pdf

based on that it looks like there are only 2 sensors. the vac sensor, which controls the auger as well, so i know that is good, and the esp, which i know it reads the exhaust temp and then gives that info to the control board, but im not sure what it does with that info. could that be too dirty or bad that its not telling the control board to turn on the distribution fan? maybe? shame the manual isnt as descriptive as the cb1200 which basically lets you cancel out each part as the cuplrit one at a time.

so it might be the esp probe, might be the control board, might be the fan. my plan is to go over there, clean the esp, and then turn on the thing and see if it has 110v to the fan. if it does, the fan is bad, if it doesnt its either the esp or the control board....

or im misinterpreting the manual, or reading the wrong manual! lol

 

[ARC]

Good information on this thread. Not sure if your stove has stove temp settings called constant temp on some stoves: Stove Temp has 2 unique working modes - Auto and Manual via igniter switch selection. Stove temp AUTO will allow the distribution fan to run at most temperatures selected. Stove temp MANUAL will turn off the fan unless the temp knob is 5 or HIGHER to prevent the stove from overheating I would presume. Harman calls this "Fireplace mode" or something like that, to have a large flame without overheating the room

Diagram may or may not be for your year stove also diagram at end of attached manual. Some manuals have diagrams some do not.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-your-harman-works-what-your-manual-doesnt-tell-you.91030/

Parts cat.

Thread 'Harman parts numbers. This is top secret so guard this info with your life.'

Nov 16, 2012

To help everyone with part numbers and to keep the repeated posts about looking up part numbers (like that will stop anyone). I have attached the electronic part's numbers. Remember this stuff is top secret and for Harman stove owners only. If a non-Harman stove owner reads this I will unleash SeAL team 6 on your non Harman stove owner butt. Be ready.

If you found this useful please whisper, "Thanks Berry." three times and click the like button on the bottom.

Eric

• kinsmanstoves
• Replies: 21
• Forum: The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves

• 

https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.c...sP-ioo3y0O_EDLaayHEnVw6hKsGaSi5uqlRQ1ofa0j2yA

 

[idiggplants]

Good information on this thread. Not sure if your stove has stove temp settings called constant temp on some stoves: Stove Temp has 2 unique working modes - Auto and Manual via igniter switch selection. Stove temp AUTO will allow the distribution fan to run at most temperatures selected. Stove temp MANUAL will turn off the fan unless the temp knob is 5 or HIGHER to prevent the stove from overheating I would presume. Harman calls this "Fireplace mode" or something like that, to have a large flame without overheating the room

Diagram may or may not be for your year stove also diagram at end of attached manual. Some manuals have diagrams some do not.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-your-harman-works-what-your-manual-doesnt-tell-you.91030/

View attachment 344487

Parts cat.

Thread 'Harman parts numbers. This is top secret so guard this info with your life.'

Nov 16, 2012

To help everyone with part numbers and to keep the repeated posts about looking up part numbers (like that will stop anyone). I have attached the electronic part's numbers. Remember this stuff is top secret and for Harman stove owners only. If a non-Harman stove owner reads this I will unleash SeAL team 6 on your non Harman stove owner butt. Be ready.

If you found this useful please whisper, "Thanks Berry." three times and click the like button on the bottom.

Eric

• kinsmanstoves
• Replies: 21
• Forum: The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves

• 

https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.c...sP-ioo3y0O_EDLaayHEnVw6hKsGaSi5uqlRQ1ofa0j2yA

great info. thanks! i was just reading that "what your manual doesnt tell you" thread. still have a ways to go.

few more things ive noticed. i havent found a wiring diagram that has a "hi/low" switch like this model has.

will have her send me a picture of the control board when she gets home. good to know on manual mode. i guess that may have kept it from running the distribution fan, although i have to imagine with how hot it was it would have been kicking on.

current plan is to go over there tomorrow and clean the thing out real well, including the esp probe. check to see if the fan moves easily or if it is binding or has a bad bearing. check if the thing ever sends power to the fan. then go from there and decide if i should order a new fan, or something else.

 

[idiggplants]

Good information on this thread. Not sure if your stove has stove temp settings called constant temp on some stoves: Stove Temp has 2 unique working modes - Auto and Manual via igniter switch selection. Stove temp AUTO will allow the distribution fan to run at most temperatures selected. Stove temp MANUAL will turn off the fan unless the temp knob is 5 or HIGHER to prevent the stove from overheating I would presume. Harman calls this "Fireplace mode" or something like that, to have a large flame without overheating the room

Diagram may or may not be for your year stove also diagram at end of attached manual. Some manuals have diagrams some do not.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-your-harman-works-what-your-manual-doesnt-tell-you.91030/

View attachment 344487

Parts cat.

Thread 'Harman parts numbers. This is top secret so guard this info with your life.'

Nov 16, 2012

To help everyone with part numbers and to keep the repeated posts about looking up part numbers (like that will stop anyone). I have attached the electronic part's numbers. Remember this stuff is top secret and for Harman stove owners only. If a non-Harman stove owner reads this I will unleash SeAL team 6 on your non Harman stove owner butt. Be ready.

If you found this useful please whisper, "Thanks Berry." three times and click the like button on the bottom.

Eric

• kinsmanstoves
• Replies: 21
• Forum: The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves

• 

https://www.stove-parts-unlimited.c...sP-ioo3y0O_EDLaayHEnVw6hKsGaSi5uqlRQ1ofa0j2yA

ohh, one other thing i noticed... while that manual is titled as the freestanding accentra, if you look on the last page the wiring diagram calls it out as a diagram for the absolute, allure, xxv-tc, and accentra 52i(insert) models.

the main thing i am getting from this, though, is just about everything is looking the same, minus the number/style of blowers... which is pretty unimportant. and its looking like im prepared enough to get the job done. so i thank you both! ill report back after i get over there.

 

[Washed-Up]

When you’re ready to clean it out, this will work amazing if you have one with the vacuuming option…leave the door open so you don’t damage the vacuum switch and if you have an air compressor with a fine point nozzle to use in the firebox it cleans it even better…there’s also a small plate under the burnpot held on by 2 wingnuts, clean in there too all done cold and with the stove unplugged

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[jackman]

Your stove is the Accentra FS (freestanding) manufactured May 2003. The dimples in the month and year are shown in your picture #4. I've attached my manuals if it helps.

First things first I would run the test mode on it which will turn on all the fans. Then go from there.

 

[idiggplants]

Your stove is the Accentra FS (freestanding) manufactured May 2003. The dimples in the month and year are shown in your picture #4. I've attached my manuals if it helps.

First things first I would run the test mode on it which will turn on all the fans. Then go from there.

ohh man, thank you so much. this pretty much gets me everything i need!

to be honest, there is a chance she had it set to the "fireplace mode" and didnt realize it. she doesnt have a room sensor(i will be getting her one), and she had to set it to manual mode because her ignighter isnt working. she probably had it set to below 5 on the heat output because it isnt a big place.

between knowing that test mode will force the blower on, and some basic diagnostics, and a deep cleaning i think ill have her up and running. she probably hasnt had a clue how to clean it, either. cant ever hurt to get brownie points with the MIL!

thanks again!

 

[idiggplants]

Update. I got over there last night. Went in confident, came out confused... here is what i did and found:

1. first thing i did was turn it to test mode. everything came on except for the distribution fan. the distribution fan light was also not on. i thought that was weird.
2. the wiring in the back all looked very oem and looked like i was the first one that disconnected anything. subtle stuff like yellowing of spade terminals where they were connected, etc. the only thing that looked like it was replaced was the esp probe. had an extremely long coil of wires twist tied in place.
3. i noticed if i plug in the stove with everything off, the status light flashes twice. waits a while, and flashes twice again. if i turn the stove on, there is no flashing.
4. if the stove is running and i unplug the stove and plug it back in, nothing turns on. it just sits there with the power light on. i have to turn the dial off and then back on. i tried this with the dist fan disconnected as well. same thing.
5. i spun dist fan by hand. it didnt spin super freely, but it didnt feel like the bearings are bad. just a bit more resistance than i would expect.
6. i unplugged the fan and i get 120v showing from the control board going to the fan. no matter what. even if everything is shut off. i found this very weird.
7. if i test the voltage at those spade connectors when connected to the fan the voltage drops to only a couple volts. occasionally the fan will move slightly but not actually spin
8. if i use a power cord to power the fan off of 120v directly, it runs on both speeds.

im stumped. mostly because it shows 120v to the fan, but the fan doesnt run. but if i plug it into the wall, it does run.

also stumped as to why that 120v is shown to the fan as soon as i plug the stove into the wall.

IDK. bit dejected at this point.

 

[ARC]

i spun dist fan by hand. it didnt spin super freely, but it didnt feel like the bearings are bad. just a bit more resistance than i would expect.

Should spin freely. bearings are probably going couple drops oil will temporally allow to spin. Bearing replacement or total replacement in your future. When I clean fans last step is a shot of air from canned air. It spins fan so fast you would not want to stick your fingers in there. That is how easy fan should spin. 6:45 in video shows how easy it spins. Second video is replacement for that stove.

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[idiggplants]

Should spin freely. bearings are probably going couple drops oil will temporally allow to spin. Bearing replacement or total replacement in your future. When I clean fans last step is a shot of air from canned air. It spins fan so fast you would not want to stick your fingers in there. That is how easy fan should spin. 6:45 in video shows how easy it spins. Second video is replacement for that stove.

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Yeah. I've dealt with with both fans on my quadtafire. I'm sure it's not as smooth as when it's new but it really wasn't bad. I definitely agree I could use a cleaning and probably won't have long till it goes .. But I really feel like it's not what's causing the fan to not operate if it's due to a bearing. There simply isn't that much resistance. But I'm not going to pretend I know better than you guys.

 

[ARC]

First, I am not a Harman guy, only ever worked on one. When you wrote had some resistance when you free spun there should be none or almost none. When you wrote it sometimes tries to spin but doesn't that indicates bearings. You could try helping the initial spin use something like a pencil and help it spin do not use your fingers. Then when you wrote wired direct to 120v and it worked that means it is not motor. I am assuming Harman distribution blowers are like most other stoves. On my stove my blower speed goes from 1-9. I can change output in my setting also. These number I am giving mean nothing they are just US stove numbers for their own reference. Setting 1 default is 230 out of 500 and setting 9 default is 270 out of 500. So setting 9 is only 54% of the highest power setting. If I turn 9 up to 500 I get 46% more power to the motor. Does that make sense? I would assume that even with your blower set on Hi it is not running at full power it is made that way. When you put 120v directly to blower it is then running on full power. So even on Hi the motor is not getting enough electricity to kick start the fan with "bad" bearings but when wire direct it is getting enough to kick start fan. Hope I haven't confused you. I am sure Ssyko can explain it better.

 

[idiggplants]

First, I am not a Harman guy, only ever worked on one. When you wrote had some resistance when you free spun there should be none or almost none. When you wrote it sometimes tries to spin but doesn't that indicates bearings. You could try helping the initial spin use something like a pencil and help it spin do not use your fingers. Then when you wrote wired direct to 120v and it worked that means it is not motor. I am assuming Harman distribution blowers are like most other stoves. On my stove my blower speed goes from 1-9. I can change output in my setting also. These number I am giving mean nothing they are just US stove numbers for their own reference. Setting 1 default is 230 out of 500 and setting 9 default is 270 out of 500. So setting 9 is only 54% of the highest power setting. If I turn 9 up to 500 I get 46% more power to the motor. Does that make sense? I would assume that even with your blower set on Hi it is not running at full power it is made that way. When you put 120v directly to blower it is then running on full power. So even on Hi the motor is not getting enough electricity to kick start the fan with "bad" bearings but when wire direct it is getting enough to kick start fan. Hope I haven't confused you.

Nope, you're good. On this model it's just high and low, 110v to 1 wire on high, 110 to the other wire on low.

Forgot to mention that while there was power to the fan, I did try to give the fan a spin with my fingers and it stopped just as quickly as it did with no power.

When it was connected directly to the wall poser, it ran fast and quiet and didn't have any sounds that I would normally attribute to a worn bearing.

I appreciate the help and time you are contributing even if it doesn't lead to the fix directly, btw

 

[johneh]

If it runs out of the stove with 110volts then by writes
it should also run installed in the stove with 110volts.
Stupid Question: Does the fan motor have a good ground in the stove?

 

[doneill127]

not sure if this helps . Is the ground wire good. If I recall it’s a green wire from the fan with a female spade connector buried up around the differential pressure switch. Only other thing I can think of is I seem to recall that some aftermarket blowers need to have wires or terminals swapped to make it compatible with oem harness. Maybe someone swapped the blower and did follow instructions wiring changes

 

[Washed-Up]

Any chance you could post a photo from behind the stove with the rear panel off? Might reveal something I’m hoping

 

[NS P-68]

It does sound like a control board issue... especially if you're getting an unusual voltage when testing.
Its good advice to check the ground connections for each motor. Any green wires should be connected securely to frame or case of motor

 

[idiggplants]

If it runs out of the stove with 110volts then by writes
it should also run installed in the stove with 110volts.
Stupid Question: Does the fan motor have a good ground in the stove?

not sure if this helps . Is the ground wire good. If I recall it’s a green wire from the fan with a female spade connector buried up around the differential pressure switch. Only other thing I can think of is I seem to recall that some aftermarket blowers need to have wires or terminals swapped to make it compatible with oem harness. Maybe someone swapped the blower and did follow instructions wiring changes

It does sound like a control board issue... especially if you're getting an unusual voltage when testing.
Its good advice to check the ground connections for each motor. Any green wires should be connected securely to frame or case of motor

figured id reply to all rather than each individually. as for the ground... what i did when i jumped it straight to plugging it in, is that i took the incoming wires from the stove plug, and used spade connectors to jump the white(-) and black(+) wire directly to the fan. instead of the stove. so the ground when the fan is hooked to the stove, vs when i jumped it directly to the outlet remained consistent.

Any chance you could post a photo from behind the stove with the rear panel off? Might reveal something I’m hoping

as soon as i left i knew i should have done that. unfortunately that wont be possible till i go over there again, and the next time i go over, i plan on taking parts with me.