Harman accentra 52i heat output

[Kyle6286]

Hey everyone,

I'm writing from Rhode Island in good ol New England. Out of curiosity, I wanted to see the actual heat output, or at least what's being distributed into our house from the stove, so I took a meat thermometer and placed it right near the blower of our Harman Accentra. While the esp temp is essentially maxed out or close to it in the mid 400s, my measurement of the air blowing out read only in the high 200s (pics attached). Does this seem right? My concern is that I'm losing a lot of heat up the chimney, though I'm not sure if these pics confirm that.

I'm aware this isn't the most scientific method of testing here, but I figured it was worth a shot. Without rambling on in a long-winded post, I'll address any questions in subsequent posts, as I'm sure there are a million variables at play.

2k sq ft cape, by the way.

Thank you!

 

[Washed-Up]

Just temped my P61A and here’s what I saw on these settings.
I’m sure if you used a temperature laser it would be higher.

 

[Kyle6286]

I should probably invest in one of those as I'm sure they're more accurate. Thanks for your reply.

I guess I'm just wondering if I'm getting the most out of my stove. I don't believe they installed an OAK. No, I didn't know what that was at the time, and I only learned of this forum after having spent some time researching after our stove was installed, so I feel dumb now for not having done my homework ahead of time.

Our stove struggles to achieve a room temp of 70 this time of year, and when it does get to that temp, it rarely gets to calm down, meaning it will basically stay at full blast (feed limit set to 65%), which of course uses quite a bit of pellets. As a result, I'll typically set it to 68 at the most in an effort not to eat a ton of pellets. The stove runs on auto and on a schedule - 64 during the day and then 68 around 5pm until 10pm, at which point I turn it off until 6 the next morning. At this rate, we're using about a bag a day, so I can't imagine how much we'd be using if I were to leave it on manual and let it run all day and night. I'm quite jealous of all of you who let this thing run 24 hours a day and brag about a nice warm house.

I have an energy assessment in a few weeks to see where we can improve in terms of home insulation, which I'm sure is partly to blame here, but is there anything else I may be missing? Our home, while two floors, is a pretty open floor plan on the first floor, and I keep our ceiling fan running clockwise at the lowest setting to help circulate air and push the warm air down.

Thank you

 

[Ssyko]

Adding an oak would be a good start. Keeping the air you already heated inside and not bringing cold air in is a step in the right direction. Maybe consider a bigger stove? P68 would give you alot more btu’s or the comparable enviro Maxx. Both very good stoves and both are heat beasts.

 

[Kyle6286]

Thanks, while I'd love to get a bigger stove, I bought this brand new less than two years ago, and it wasn't cheap. Is there a market to sell used stoves?

I think installing an OAK makes sense after doing some reading. I may have to see if a local stove company can install one since I don't want to screw things up.

 

[Washed-Up]

Can you post a photo of your exhaust set up? Is it up and through the wall? Or is it straight out of the wall to the outside? I’ll explain after I see the set up.

 

[Kyle6286]

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my initial post. This is an insert sitting in the fireplace. As such, it's vented up the chimney. The more I read through the OAK threads on here, which have been very helpful, I'm very confident that the company from whom I purchased the stove didn't install an oak at the time the stove was installed. Two things, however, that make me think the installation was done a bit sketchy, in my opinion, are as follows:

First, my fireplace opening isn't "standard" size, so the insert didn't quite fit properly (stove was too small). As a result, the installer had to go back to their store and get a steel sheet which you can see in the picture. The issue though is that while it seems to fit okay, there is a small gap between the sheet and the brick fireplace, which I'm assuming is contributing to heat loss.

Second, they ran an extension cord to power the stove down to the basement through the ash pit door to a GFI outlet in the basement. This can't be standard operating procedure, can it? Also attached a pic here for reference.

Appreciate the help!

 

[Washed-Up]

Oh ok, well that changes a few things. You may be able to run a liner straight up your existing chimney next to your exhaust piping for your oak, any idea of the length from the back of the stove to the top of the chimney?

 

[rickwai]

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my initial post. This is an insert sitting in the fireplace. As such, it's vented up the chimney. The more I read through the OAK threads on here, which have been very helpful, I'm very confident that the company from whom I purchased the stove didn't install an oak at the time the stove was installed. Two things, however, that make me think the installation was done a bit sketchy, in my opinion, are as follows:

First, my fireplace opening isn't "standard" size, so the insert didn't quite fit properly (stove was too small). As a result, the installer had to go back to their store and get a steel sheet which you can see in the picture. The issue though is that while it seems to fit okay, there is a small gap between the sheet and the brick fireplace, which I'm assuming is contributing to heat loss.

Second, they ran an extension cord to power the stove down to the basement through the ash pit door to a GFI outlet in the basement. This can't be standard operating procedure, can it? Also attached a pic here for reference.

Appreciate the help!

The sheet metal surround has no effect on sealing air out. Remember your room fans are back there sending heat out into the house. Having the chimney top sealed good where the liner goes up is important. Cord plugged into gfci in basement may not be code but it works. Your other option would be to bring the cord out the front and plug it into a outlet in the room. Keep us posted on the results of your energy audit.

 

[fmsm]

I will ask the obvious, what are you burning for pellets?

 

[Montecarlossfan]

First is .. square footage you are trying to warm up.
Second is an outside air kit with a blocked of chimney is a big difference... I didn’t believe it but it makes a difference.

Have you tried to do a constant burn (stove temp) vs using it in auto? Usually you need to heat up the stove room a little higher for heat to flow otherwise you are heating the space .

When was the last cleaning (brushing down exchanger wall etc)?

All of this affects heat output .. I know when I do a good cleaning the stove is hot to the point of being too much lol...

This is my first year with outside air with my 52i and a chimney plate and the house stays much warmer at a lower setting. I am heating a smaller(1400 sq ft) ranch built in 1956. Insulation was not priority although adequate enough back then.

 

[Kyle6286]

This being only my second season with this stove, I decided to change from last year's Vermont pellets to a combination of La Crete and Okanagan pellets. Let me say that the latter two produce significantly more ash than Vermont pellets. Not a fan of either to be honest. I've supplemented with two others (Lignetics Green Supreme and Greene Team) from Lowe's lately and haven't seen a difference in burn quality at all despite being cheaper ($5.48 a bag).

I just did a thorough cleaning today - took out the medallion plate and side plates or whatever they're called, which are almost impossible to put back in, used the brush provided with the stove to clean all ash buildup, scraped the burn pot which I do every few days, vacuumed the entire stove, including the ash catcher under the burn pot as well as the fan.

I don't know why but I don't have great confidence that this stove was installed properly, or if it was, maybe my house is really lacking in energy efficiency, and not having an outside air kit really takes a toll. Using this stove in auto mode with the feed limit set to 65%, it struggles to hit a room temp of 70 and if it does, I feel like it just burns through pellets like crazy to maintain that temp. So basically it never really "goes easy" once it hits the 68-70 range despite the weather in New England this year not being too cold yet.

Due to the fact that this is an insert inside a fireplace, does that complicate the OAK situation or affect its efficiency? I'd like to think installing this would help my situation, but who knows.

 

[Kyle6286]

Also, sorry everyone if it sounds like I'm full of complaints. I'm just a little underwhelmed with this stove's performance after having spent more than $5k on it, but given the amount of variables in play, including user error, I know there are a lot of things that could be affecting this, hence my numerous questions.

Thanks to all for the help and suggestions.

 

[MapleHill]

First off, stick with the Vermont pellets. They're excellent, very high BTU content and very low ash.

As far as your installation, I would recommend that you build a stand so that you can pull your unit out. You'll eventually have to do this yourself anyway (every season) so you might as well get a jump on it. While it's out, pull up the installation manual for the 52i and check it against what you see back there.

We bought a home with a 52i installed last year and like you, I was suspicious that it wasn't a top-notch install. So I got familiar with the stove, pulled it out and tidied things up. After going through a winter without an OAK, and feeling the draft on the floor and not experiencing the heat I expected... I installed an OAK last summer. The difference is night and day. I also installed a block-off plate in the flue... if you do both of these things you will experience the stove working as it should. Without these things in place, you're battling heat losses. Good luck, and keep us posted!

Our 52i heats our 2,300 st foot home nicely and we're in Northern Vermont.

 

[Kyle6286]

First off, stick with the Vermont pellets. They're excellent, very high BTU content and very low ash.

As far as your installation, I would recommend that you build a stand so that you can pull your unit out. You'll eventually have to do this yourself anyway (every season) so you might as well get a jump on it. While it's out, pull up the installation manual for the 52i and check it against what you see back there.

We bought a home with a 52i installed last year and like you, I was suspicious that it wasn't a top-notch install. So I got familiar with the stove, pulled it out and tidied things up. After going through a winter without an OAK, and feeling the draft on the floor and not experiencing the heat I expected... I installed an OAK last summer. The difference is night and day. I also installed a block-off plate in the flue... if you do both of these things you will experience the stove working as it should. Without these things in place, you're battling heat losses. Good luck, and keep us posted!

Our 52i heats our 2,300 st foot home nicely and we're in Northern Vermont.

Appreciate your feedback. While I'd love to stick with the Vermonts, the dealer I purchased them from last year -same dealer from whom we purchased our stove - is charging $345 a ton delivered, which seems ridiculous. I know they're superior to those sold in big box stores, but when you can find a ton of pellets at, say, Lowe's or HD for $5.48 a bag (I only buy some here and there just to test), or $250 a ton, I have to wonder if the Vermonts are worth an extra $75-$95 a ton.

Also, that's great that your OAK has made a significant difference for you. Because I'm dealing with a brick chimney, I'm hesitant to screw anything up, so I've actually called multiple Harman dealers around RI to see whether they install OAKs. I've literally tried calling four companies around RI over the past week to inquire about this. Two never answer their phone despite having called multiple times, and the other two don't install OAKs, and the latter two have stated that an OAK isn't necessary in my case, which seems odd based on all the information on this forum. It's like these companies don't want my money lol.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[fmsm]

Appreciate your feedback. While I'd love to stick with the Vermonts, the dealer I purchased them from last year -same dealer from whom we purchased our stove - is charging $345 a ton delivered, which seems ridiculous. I know they're superior to those sold in big box stores, but when you can find a ton of pellets at, say, Lowe's or HD for $5.48 a bag (I only buy some here and there just to test), or $250 a ton, I have to wonder if the Vermonts are worth an extra $75-$95 a ton.

Also, that's great that your OAK has made a significant difference for you. Because I'm dealing with a brick chimney, I'm hesitant to screw anything up, so I've actually called multiple Harman dealers around RI to see whether they install OAKs. I've literally tried calling four companies around RI over the past week to inquire about this. Two never answer their phone despite having called multiple times, and the other two don't install OAKs, and the latter two have stated that an OAK isn't necessary in my case, which seems odd based on all the information on this forum. It's like these companies don't want my money lol.

Thanks again for your help.

Kyle,

With all due respect please understand that there is a reason why cheap pellets are cheap. While a Harman can and will burn pretty much anything you will use more pellets to obtain the same heat output while burning dirtier with more ash. If you simply want to burn cheap crap the stove will work, you will use more pellets and need to clean more often.

An OAK is the most efficient way to obtain desirable (a warm room/house) performance from your stove. Dealer's are mostly lazy and their service personnel are booked with jobs that they charge big money for both parts and labor. You may have better luck in August...

 

[Kyle6286]

Kyle,

With all due respect please understand that there is a reason why cheap pellets are cheap. While a Harman can and will burn pretty much anything you will use more pellets to obtain the same heat output while burning dirtier with more ash. If you simply want to burn cheap crap the stove will work, you will use more pellets and need to clean more often.

An OAK is the most efficient way to obtain desirable (a warm room/house) performance from your stove. Dealer's are mostly lazy and their service personnel are booked with jobs that they charge big money for both parts and labor. You may have better luck in August...

Thanks, no disrespect taken. I hear you on the pellet quality. To clarify, I've only been buying a couple of bags here and there from Lowe's and HD just to compare and because they're so cheap. While I didn't splurge for the Vermonts this season, I still got what are supposed to be good quality pellets, a ton each of Okanagan and La Crete. Despite these being labeled as more of a premium pellet, I'm not sure I've noticed much of a difference between these and the cheap stuff. Vermonts, on the other hand, are a whole different animal. Maybe next year I'll just bite the bullet and pay the premium cost.

 

[MapleHill]

I hear you on price! We pay $320/ton for the Vermonts (delivered) and while it hurts for a second, I'm reminded that it's worth it when I am not emptying the ash pan every other day and doing less frequent cleanings. Whatever you end up with, I'd suggest softwood pellets (like the Vermonts).

Like you, I also called around to the local dealers to inquire about an OAK. And like your dealers,, mine all shrugged it off. I think their money is made on the initial sale and they don't really want to be bothered with OAK installs where each one might be slightly different, involve running back to the shop for parts, etc.

Without one, though, you are blowing all of that nice warm air right back outside again. It's like leaving several bath fans on all winter long. Running without an OAK also made our home very dry, and now the humidity stays in a comfortable range.

If you put your hand on the floor near the stove when it's running, can you feel the cold air being drawn towards that stove? That goes away with an OAK. You also want to make sure that they installed nick air-tight block off plate in the chimney. Once springs here, whip yourself up a little service stand out of wood, pull that thing out, and take a look around.

 

[Connecticut Yankee]

As for Okanagan pellets, they used to be a really good brand, but the name has been sold a couple of times in the past year, so you are not actually getting pellets from Okanagan, B.C., anymore, just whatever crap the current manufacturer decides to put in them. It really is true that you get what you pay for.