Harmon vs. Englander furnaces

[taken]

Hello everyone. New guy here looking for opinions. I've been heating with wood my whole life and currently am heating my smallish 1400 square foot ranch with an Avalon Ranier insert. It's provided 90% of my heat for the last 9-10 years. I am building a new home in the spring and would like to get the wood, ash, and smoke from my LR to the basement. The new home will have gas forced air and because it is new construction, I will have my HVAC guy there to tie everything in at once. I have been researching add on furnaces for a while and have my choices narrowed down to two. The Harmon SF-1500-A or the Englander 28-3500. The Harmon because it is the only highly rated furnace sold locally and the Englander because... well... I can have it shipped to my door for $1240... I have read good things about both here and elsewhere but don't know what would be the best choice for my installation. I live in MA and the home will be approx. 2200 square feet, two stories, and very well insulated. I am looking to use the wood furnace for 90% of my heat again, only using the gas in the warmer transitional months and while we are away on winter vacations. I would also enjoy warmer floors with the fire in the basement. The advantages of the Harmon are auto draft control, larger blower, optional DHW coil, and full size 20X20 plenum. The Englander has a great price and seems simple in operation and installation. It's not about the money though as I really just want what's best for the house. So, here are my questions:

1) Does anyone bother to tie in to the homes cold air return ducts or are people just using the basement air for supply? (Also, can the cold air return be tapped for the two models I'm considering?)
2) The Harmon is rated at 90k BTU and 2200 square feet. The Englander is rated at 80k BTU's and 3000 square feet. Are they calculating different because the lower BTU rated unit is listed as being able to heat more square feet??
3) Will the auto damper of the Harmon give me a longer burn time? Also, will it cause more creosote build up slowing down the burn when the thermostat is not calling for heat?
4) I have read that the Englander's older style design uses more wood than other designs. It is only rated at 63. Will I be using a great deal more wood with the Englander than the Harmon?

I'll probably have more questions but I didn't want to get too overwhelming on my first post. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or opinions!!

PS: In case anyone is interested, the Harmon is about $2700 and the Englander is $1240.

 

[SolarAndWood]

If you are interested in efficiency, check out BlazeKing's catalytic furnace.

(broken link removed to http://blazeking.com/furnaces-heaters.html)

They have the certificate for the tax credit posted as well.

 

[lexybird]

i cant compare the 2 models ...but i can tell yo u about the englander furnace ,i use around average of what most people use for wood in my area to heat their homes .i heat a 2,000 sq feet split level house in northwestern Pa, we like it toasty and the temps range from low70's to low 80's depending on our mood .i use no other source of heat so it has to work or we freeze lol it handily outperformed my 100,000 btu oil furnace and i could see it heating 3,000 sq ft .typically i fill the stove 3-4 times per day (only 2 times in the late fall and spring) id estimate the charges average around 5 or so good sized 2 foot long(takes big wood=less cutting )) hardwood splits i imagine this equates to 15-18 sticks in a day or a heaping wheelbarrow full ,it takes getting used to not having any auto air control but in all actuality the archaic slide and spin draft setup works pretty well once you get the knack of it ,i get around 8-9 hours of burn times with a full load of seasoned hardwood (oak,maple,cherry, beech),i use around 1-1.5 cords per month in the cold months (dec,jan ,feb) and around 6-7 cords throughout the season ,its nice having that big viewing window and checking on the fire from a distance without having to open it and my lab seems to enjoy the view lol theres a few features that i wish it had sure(secondary burn tubes and a slightly bigger blower) but for the price and american quality you really cant beat it. do your research cause if your going to spend over 2 grand on a furnace get yourself a EPA certifed caddie.the secondary brun will save atleast one charge/load per day so theres a worthwhile wood savings there if you have the cash .

 

[taken]

Thanks for the info guys. I did look at the Caddy and was impressed. As for the old method of controlling the Englander, it would be an easy transition for me. Works pretty much the same as my Avalon insert. I'm really concerned that I might be happier with a less expensive simpler product. Can that be??? I guess I need to look at the Caddy further. Less wood, glass door, and auto damper. Seems like the best of both worlds. Plus I can buy the one without the blower and just use the blower on my existing gas furnace. Might be just the ticket. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[stephenmoore]

I don't want to crap on Harman, but I run a PB 105 pellet boiler, and I have to say there are some really simple design issues that should have been dealt with before manufacturing. Mostly their igniter system . I have to also say that getting in touch with anyone at Harman about tech issues is pretty much impossible. If your furnace is an established product with a good track record, go for it. I think they make good stuff, but they seemed to rush things on the 105 and it has left a lot of frustated people. Hope this barely on topic info is helpful.

 

[taken]

The part about tech service sure is! They are the only company I've researched on the web that doesn't post a contact number anywhere on their web site. Guess that carries through to the ownership experience. Thanks for the input Stephen...

 

[stephenmoore]

Good luck with your purchase, found lots of useful heating info on www.warmair.net as well. esp for computing fuel costs, although your fuel source has already been determined.

 

[AndrewChurchill]

I too have a Haman PB105 boiler and it runs great, is easy to work on and clean, but like Stephen said the weak point is the auto ignite feature. However, in the winter I just run it in the manual mode and about once a month I shut it down and do a 15 minute cleaning and fire it back up again. In the manual mode it's as reliable as my oil boiler.

 

[Gooserider]

Just as a note - Harman wants all tech support to go through the selling dealer - which means that you are at the mercy of the local dealer's quality, and his remaining in business... (and they don't expect a dealer that didn't sell you the unit to do ANYTHING to help you...) It also means that you get to play the "telephone relay game" on any tech support calls - you call the dealer, the dealer calls Harman, then calls you back with what Harman says, etc... I would say the two key things with a Harman are to make sure you have a really good dealer, and don't go shopping at the distant places for a "bargain" as the local dealer may not support you if you do...

Gooserider

 

[taken]

I gave up on the Harman as soon as I was directed to the Caddy...

 

[sinnian]

You should seriously consider the Traeger/Pinnacle pellet furnaces. They have been at it longer then Harmon, Caddy and Englander ~ time proven and tested.

They have two size models: the GBU070 which puts out 70,000 BTU/hr (up to 2000 sq. foot home) or the GBU130 which puts out 85,000 or 130,000 BTU/hr for a 2000 - 4000 sq. foot home.

I have the boiler model and have been pleased with it. You couldn't ask for a better deal then Mark: http://www.evergreenheat.com/pelletsolutions.htm#ModelGBU070

Tell him Jeff from Limerick sent you!

 

[taken]

I would, but I'm not after a pellet furnace. Wood free for me all day long in the back yard...

 

[kevinmerchant]

I used the englander for 2 years. was very happy with it. When I moved brought it with me. Didnt hook it up because the oil burner is using the ony basement flue. Ironicly bought another one from nieghbore who used his a couple times then didnt want to deal with wood. Now I have two not using and consider selling. Wife wondering why I bought 2nd one. I'm currently burning a avalon. Call me if your interested in one of the furnaces.
Kevin
203-272-7946

 

[kieth4548]

Hi Taken,

I have the englander 28-3500. I am now on my third season and love it. I grew up around wood stoves so I was familer with them. I build a new house four years ago and it's a one store 1500sq ft with full basement. I have not had any problems with it. When I first got it, it took me a bit to get used to setting the dampers to get maximum burn times. On a fill I usually get about 6-8 hours of heat with residual heat after that. I keep my house mid 70's to about 80 max. My wife freezes I cook. Once you get the stove going and up to temp you will have no problem keeping your house warm even in the coldest of temps. I have a gas furnace as my back up and heat with wood in the winter when it gets cold enought. I have mine sitting next to my furnace and have it hooked into my cold air return. My HVAC guy made a filter box (the same size filet as my furnace so I dont have different sizes) and took two 6" ducts out the top of the filter box into the cold air return. With the englander having a 8" heat duct out the top you are giving it pleanty of intake air (12"). With it being hooked into the cold air return the heat is even in the house. I don't have any hot/cold spots. I burn about 5-6 cords a season depending on coldness. So far this year I havn't had to burn all day. Our house is so insulated that I will start a fire at night, burn through the night and maybe put 2-3 logs on in the morning to knoch off the chill but other that that I don't burn a lot of wood. Also to I have tried to run the house furnace blower to move the heat. It doesn't work very well. The blower moves the air to fast and cools it down. I even changed the wires around on the blower to the lowest fan speed and it was still to fast. Once you get the furnace temps up heat will pour out the vents. FYI I have called engalnder tech support a few times for just some general questions and have had no problems getting through. I may have to wait a minute or two but always get through. Also they speak english LOL. They are in the United States. I have spoken to a few of the techs and all of them were very very knowledgeable of there product. If you need any other info or pictures let me know.

Kieth