Harmon XXV install

[MeghonFire]

hi eveyone, I've decided to purchase a Harmon XXV based on specs, reviews, and let's face it, dang that's a sexy stove. I have a tiny hearth with a very low thimble and don't want to redo right now so a pellet stove fits the bill. My chimney sweep recommended the dealer over a closer one, but my question is this:

The dealer wants to charge 1500-2000 for install, including some metal liner in the flue. Chimney sweep says liner is unnecessary since I already am set up for a wood stove (chimney). The dealer says the liner keeps any downdraft from occurring which will make the stove think it's clogged and won't run. Sweep says I only need a reducer (from 6-3... not sure if this runs the whole length of chimney?) from Home Depot and he'd install on the cheap.

Has anyone done this install without the liner and had problems? Are they ripping me off? It hurts to pay so much for the stove and THEN pay so much for install... but I want the damn thing to work... PS I'm not too handy so I'm not going to be installing the liner myself.

 

[MarkF48]

Back in 2012 I installed my XXV into a clay tile lined chimney that was previously used for a wood stove. I put a rain cap on top of the chimney also, mostly because I had an occasional duck or two that somehow would fall down the chimney, but probably does also reduce/prevent the downdraft you mention.

From the XXV install manual.....

'#3 Installing into an existing
chimney
This method provides excellent venting for normal
operation. This method also provides natural
draft in the event of a power failure. If the chimney
condition is questionable* you may want to install a
liner as in method #6.
*The chimney should be inspected and cleaned
before installing your stove. If you discover that
the chimney does not have a clay tile liner or has
cracks or flaking of the tile liner you will need to
install a stainless steel liner within the chimney. In
most cases the inside diameter of this liner should
be 4". Either flexible or rigid liner may be used for
this purpose. Refer to Method 6.
Be sure to design the venting so that it can be
easily cleaned.'

 

[MeghonFire]

Thanks! Sounds like a rip off then since the sweep says the chimney is in good shape! That's great news. I'm sure not having them install will void some warranty, but hopefully Harmon has a good enough warranty. Anyone have or heard about the new touchscreen models? I'm thinking I should get the newest model if I'm going to be spending that much, but I can't imagine a touchscreen lasting long. If our smartphones crap out around 2 years, why wouldn't the touchscreen?

 

[Maladjusted]

I installed my Harman Absolute 63 into the existing wood stove Class A chimney. I only replaced the visible chimney from the stove to the ceiling and used a reducer to go from the 3" pellet pipe to the 8" class A Chimney. Stove works excellent. I am not concerned at all about the touch screen... doesn't even get warm.

 

[bags]

That price is high in my opinion. I would be tempted to hookup right into what you have and put a good cap on top of the existing as mentioned.

Worst case is that you may have to line the chimney. Best case you saved a boatload of cash. I'd also look for other chimney install guys and get some competitive pricing. That said keep in mind pellet vent and anything fire venting wood stove related the prices can be ridiculous for parts even if you buy them yourself and install. It cracks me up when I look at what they get for a simple termination cap or elbow for pellet venting. There goes $50 buck on $3 bucks worth of metal........

That said, no matter what, be prepared to feel like your azz got lined instead of your chimney when it is time to pay. For example I paid $250 bucks for the wall thimble on my first install. The second install I paid $40 bucks for a wall thimble. Granted the $250 dollar thimble is better but not $200 bucks better. I installed my stoves myself so that helped. I do still feel like I took and azz tuning on some prices I paid for the parts but it is water under the bridge at this point.

 

[Oregun]

Not your situation but,
I recently switched from wood stove to a XXV stove. My stove has vertical stack kit on the rear of the stove
with a 7' run of 6" single wall stove pipe to the ceiling then a 6" to 8" adapter to a 16' run of 8" metal triple wall chimney.
Everything is run in a straight vertical chimney terminated with a rotating cap.
No problems with draft and no smoke even if stove is suddenly turned off while running.(power failure)

 

[johneh]

Fifteen years ago I put a 6 to 3 reducer on my wood stove
chimney have never had a down draft problem
The dealer is just trying to make a few extra bucks
In the end it is up to you what you want .

 

[Lake Girl]

The argument for a chimney liner is that clay liners have been known to fatigue and crack, lose mortar between tiles which could allow heat/carbon monoxide to infiltrate to the house. The final word would come from your local permitting authority on what they require for an approved install...

 

[alternativeheat]

Locally a one piece metal liner is always an approved method with a pellet stove install. I have 26ft of continuous 4" liner running through a masonry chimney, it was suggested, recommended, demanded and also wanted, depending on who you spoke with LOL ! That has given going on 5 years now of superb service with easy cleaning and passes inspection by the insurance inspector..

The OP only states " wood stove chimney", not mentioning of what construction. And the Harman manual shows an install for both class A and also for masonry, directly, lined, or for an fireplace install.

On another note, pellet stoves produce positive pressure venting, wood stoves depend on natural draft.

 

[jmb78blue]

have you priced both dealers yet? 1500-2k sounds on the high end! But knowing the job is done correctly and your family, home, and a life time of belongings are safe at night is priceless!

 

[alternativeheat]

Lets just say if you're gonna screw up on an install then do it in favor of overkill not under. At least make sure there is a diagram in the install instructions matching what you want to do and you do it with quality products. There are some conditions that even with a pellet stove can cause a venting fire, we have heard of it right here in the forum. And then there was the 22 room rooming house fire in Maine that burned to the ground because of an improperly installed pellet stove or furnace. We're dealing with fire here, it might appear tamer and more controlled than some wood stoves but it's still fire in a stove , in your house. Do it right or don't do it.

 

[MeghonFire]

Thanks everyone. The dealer admitted I probably don't need the liner since I'm venting to an interior chimney. A downdraft forcing the stove to shut down seems unlikely. My chimney sweep is also a fireman so I feel comfortable with his assessment of the situation.

Has anyone had problems with the power shutting down and the house filling with smoke from a pellet stove? We sometimes lose power during big storms, although usually not too long. I know wood is better for my situation in that sense but I don't have a proper hearth for wood right now...

 

[MarkF48]

We lost power a couple of days ago with the stove running. The fans shut down, but the stove had a good natural draft from the tile lined chimney and no smoke in the house.

 

[alternativeheat]

Venting through an existing vertical chimney should not produce smoke in the house. As mentioned the natural draft take over, the flame still dies but the smoke goes up the vent.

 

[Jimbo913]

I have had smoke get in the house with a horizontal direct vent, but since then I installed a cheap 650w computer battery backup which pulses the fan until the stove burns out - problem solved. I also bought a power out alarm so it wakes me up if power is out more than 3 seconds so i can go start the generator.
Your setup might be just fine without a backup.

 

[bags]

As mentioned you are likely covered with natural draft but as also brought up it would be wise to invest around a hundred bucks for a UPS for two reasons. 1). The Uninterrupted Power Source will assist in shutting the stove down properly and run the exhaust blower helping to push out any smoke etc; 2). They protect your stove and control board from electrical damages and also serve as a high end surge protector.

Plug in UPS into the search bar above and read up on them. I have an APC brand I think I paid around $89 dollars for and it has served well. If I recall Harman owners manuals suggest using them also and will list compatible UPS' for your stove. There are also folks here that have rigged up marine batteries for extended run times if the electric stays out for awhile during a cold period too. You should be able to find info on those setups also doing a search here if you are inclined.

 

[bogieb]

I have the APC BE750G as a method of having a controlled shut down. Your manual could have different info, but it has been very consistent thru the years for the P-series.

 

[alternativeheat]

I suspect the OP has a 6" vertical vent, the power goes out , the smoke simply goes up the vent.

 

[MeghonFire]

Thanks everyone! My sweep/the fireman came and installed the stove. Only running sporadically in this shoulder season but it's working great without the lining. He called the stove shop to ask why they wouldn't install it for me and they said their liner was code. He knows the code inside and out and called their bluff. It was amazing to watch him get irate on the phone on my behalf. He only charged me for materials. So if anyone is in southern Maine and wants a good sweep, check out Lake Region Chimney!

 

[alternativeheat]

What ever. Enjoy the heat anyway, hope all goes well for you next season and beyond ! This season is pretty much a done deal.