Hartman Invincible Insert Soot Issue

[Bkins]

Looking for some help from those members that have, or have had, my stove model. We have had a fair amount of soot that is inside the firebox. It is all around and not just in one or two spots. It's bad enough that we need to be wearing gloves when cleaning the pot each morning. You can see it on the roof and we brush it off most areas each morning.

The stove works and burns fine and gives us good heat at least I think it does. The soot doesn't seem to change with the different pellet brands we have tried which are about 6. Doesn't make any difference if the stove and vent are freshly cleaned. The 2 air vents behind the grills on the side are free and flapping as they should be. Am I missing any other air inlets? I have tried cutting down the pellet feed rate to a point that it's not worth running the stove from lack of heat. We usually have the feed set on 3.5. The stove is being run on Stove Temp.

I am open to any and all suggestions as this is a PIA. I am aware that soot is usually from incomplete combustion caused by lack of air or to much fuel . The combustion motor has been replaced in the last 5 years or so with not that many tons of pellets being run through the stove. I would guess less then 5 and the motor spins freely without any noise.

 

[Bioburner]

Have you performed a test of the door gaskets? They often need attention after 4 plus years. Leaking gaskets lead to combustion issues.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

How long have you owned the stove? Is it black soot or light grey ash? Also please describe your venting setup and chimney. When was the last time you pulled the stove out on the rails and checked the venting?

 

[Bkins]

I have not checked the door gasket recently. I have owned the stove for about 6 years and the soot is black, black, black the kind that will not come off your hands or anything else. My venting is as the Harman manuel shows. I have 5' of 4" stainless pipe going up past the crook in my chimney with the pipe being closed off with insulation. Seems to have a good draw. The stove was pulled out in January of this year and the venting was cleaned. Didn't get very much ash out and what I did get was grayish in color. Bet I didn't get a 1/4 cup in total and we have burned about a ton in this stove since then. Thing is that cleaning hasn't made ANY difference in the past. I can not say that the flame I get while burning on low is any different then when I totally cleaned the stove and lit it off outside before I installed it the first time. The flame is bluish at the base changing to yellow as the flame gets taller. The flames are tall almost to the point of hitting the roof of the stove and they are active. This is on the low setting.

The chimney had a very good draw while using it as a fireplace prior to putting in the insert. I will check the door gasket tomorrow AM before we start the stove back up as we only it during the day as with 2 stoves running I could easily go through 4-5 bags a day. Paying close attention to my usage as pellets are getting very hard to find here also and I'm down to about 1 ton remaining. Will end up burning 6 tons this year. Holy Smokes!

 

[Harman Lover 007]

I have not checked the door gasket recently. I have owned the stove for about 6 years and the soot is black, black, black the kind that will not come off your hands or anything else. My venting is as the Harman manuel shows. I have 5' of 4" stainless pipe going up past the crook in my chimney with the pipe being closed off with insulation. Seems to have a good draw. The stove was pulled out in January of this year and the venting was cleaned. Didn't get very much ash out and what I did get was grayish in color. Bet I didn't get a 1/4 cup in total and we have burned about a ton in this stove since then. Thing is that cleaning hasn't made ANY difference in the past. I can not say that the flame I get while burning on low is any different then when I totally cleaned the stove and lit it off outside before I installed it the first time. The flame is bluish at the base changing to yellow as the flame gets taller. The flames are tall almost to the point of hitting the roof of the stove and they are active. This is on the low setting.

The chimney had a very good draw while using it as a fireplace prior to putting in the insert. I will check the door gasket tomorrow AM before we start the stove back up as we only it during the day as with 2 stoves running I could easily go through 4-5 bags a day. Paying close attention to my usage as pellets are getting very hard to find here also and I'm down to about 1 ton remaining. Will end up burning 6 tons this year. Holy Smokes!

Ok good info. Have you ever replaced the board or ESP? You pull the two side panels off inside the stove (one wing nut each side) and run the brush all the way up through the heat exchanger, correct? Can you stick a mirror in your chimney and make sure you can see daylight?

 

[Bkins]

No, the board nor the ESP probe have been replaced by me. I bought the stove used so who knows. I'm probably not using the esp in stove mode or am I wrong on that one? The ESP was only very lightly coated last cleaning. Don't understand the question about the board though.

I will try the mirror in the chimney but I'm not pulling the stove out now to do that. Next cleaning I will look. Yes, the heat exchanger tubes are clean and open, or they were in January. All tubes, passageways, fans and venting we're cleaned in January and we saw no difference in the soot.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

The ESP is used all the time, in either ST or RT mode. Sounds like you do a good job on cleaning and maintenance. Black soot is a combustion problem...either air in or air out. Have you removed the combustion motor recently and checked the gasket and the exhaust path from there? I know it's an insert and a PIA...

 

[Bkins]

The door gasket is shot and needs replacing. Does anyone know what size is required? The combustion motor and gasket were both new 5 years ago and I have cleaned the fan each time I've pulled it out so, no, I have not changed the gasket.

Was very surprised the door gasket is bad as it looks brand new. I know, looks can be deceiving. So the stove most likely has been getting more air then it needs hence the soot?

 

[Harman Lover 007]

The door gasket is shot and needs replacing. Does anyone know what size is required? The combustion motor and gasket were both new 5 years ago and I have cleaned the fan each time I've pulled it out so, no, I have not changed the gasket.

Was very surprised the door gasket is bad as it looks brand new. I know, looks can be deceiving. So the stove most likely has been getting more air then it needs hence the soot?

I'm pretty sure its 1/2" rope. Do you have a stove shop nearby or are you going to source it somewhere else?

 

[Harman Lover 007]

I'm pretty sure its 1/2" rope. Do you have a stove shop nearby or are you going to source it somewhere else?

Edit: its 1/4" http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Harman-Glass-Gasket-1-4-Round-PSA-10-feet-p/1-00-11862.htm
get your self a gasket for the combustion blower while you're at it... http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.co...-RS-Combustion-Blower-Gasket-p/3-44-06178.htm

 

[Bkins]

Thanks for the help. The link you sent is for the door glass not the door gasket itself. I will look at the size the next time we shut the stove off and probably get it off the internet. The only local stove shop thinks their parts are gold. I've gotten the impression a number of times that they want to do the work and price their parts to show that. It's a shame since I've lived here for better then 25 years and they have lost out on my business for just about that length of time. The only other stove shop that sells Quads and Harmans is 20 miles one way and my experience shows that they don't stock very many parts or supplies for the lines they sell. Last time I looked for gasket material for my Vermont Castings wood stove they had none and would order and ship it for $12.95 shipping and would only sell the whole kit and not just the gasket. I bought a kit once and the glue for the gasket was so old it wouldn't work. That was the last time I bought a kit. I'll source the gasket somwhere but first I have to figure out the size and length.

I'm curious to see if the gasket makes a difference. I'm guessing it will and maybe a big one at that. I have not taken the combustion blower off he insert because Harman made it easy to clean the fan and passageways on this stove with doors and access ports that can be taken off to get to stuff.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

Yup, you are right. Here is the correct link although you just don't need 30 feet! (broken link removed to http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Harman-Door-Rope-Gasket-30-feet-p/1-00-00888.htm) It's 3/8"...IIRC I was able to buy it at my stove shop by the foot. Even though you've written them off your local stove shop should have the rope in bulk. I think I bought 10 feet when I did my Invincible.