Have you replaced a SIT 820 Nova? Any tips/advice?

[pirateforhire]

I have a circa 2008 Heat and Glo Supreme-XTS. The gas valve has stopped working and I've found the replacement part here....

SIT 820 Series Millivolt Fireplace Valve 30% Turndown Natural Gas

For Propane version click here - Propane SIT quick dropout gas valve Natural Gas 30% turndown (1.6"- 3.5" wc) 3/8" inlet / outlet Requires thermopile and thermocouple for operation NOT FOR VENT FREECross ReferenceAmbiance Fireplaces: 308-0013American Hearth (Empire): R7577Archgard...

www.fire-parts.com

And it's half the cost of what my fireplace guy wants to charge just to LOOK at it and confirm it's broken. I can't afford his labor right now, so I've been checking things off the list and already replaced my blower and transmitter on my own. Woohoo! Obviously, I want to try and replace the valve on my own next.

I can't find any detailed videos or tutorials online for replacing a SIT 820 Nova for a gas fireplace, only on water heaters. I'm only getting little details here and there on wiring and the thermocouple position, even after perusing these forums.

Have you replaced one of these? Do you have any reference info you can share?

Videos, manuals, anything to help me gauge what's all involved would be much appreciated. My spouse and I are very handy individuals, but working with gas scares me enough to make sure I get plenty of info up front.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[DAKSY]

I can help, but I need some stuff from you. Take a pic of what you have, AFTER you’ve removed the glass & surround. Post it so I can see what configuration you have. The innards have changed since 2008 & I have done extensive work in the newer (2018 & later) versions.

 

[pirateforhire]

Thanks Daksy, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to look! Here is a photo of the whole thing, glass removed. Valve is on the left, not much is on the right, as that's where I slid in the blower and put in the new transmitter.

With a closeup of the front of the valve:

You'll notice that the flame level knob has been removed..... I had originally been under the impression that my knob was a conversion kit and it could have been a problem. It was only after taking it off and there wasn't a set screw that we realized we likely had the 30% turndown model.

At this point I am under the impression that to swap out the valve, I unscrew it from the bracket on both the left and right. Then I just have to keep track of where all the wires go, make sure I put the thermocouple in the right position, and then reattach gas lines. Is it that simple or am I in over my head? Here's a closeup of the left side where the thermocouple is attached:

Again, I greatly appreciate any advice you have on making this swap!

 

[Lennox65]

Thanks Daksy, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to look! Here is a photo of the whole thing, glass removed. Valve is on the left, not much is on the right, as that's where I slid in the blower and put in the new transmitter.

View attachment 301353

With a closeup of the front of the valve:
View attachment 301354

You'll notice that the flame level knob has been removed..... I had originally been under the impression that my knob was a conversion kit and it could have been a problem. It was only after taking it off and there wasn't a set screw that we realized we likely had the 30% turndown model.

At this point I am under the impression that to swap out the valve, I unscrew it from the bracket on both the left and right. Then I just have to keep track of where all the wires go, make sure I put the thermocouple in the right position, and then reattach gas lines. Is it that simple or am I in over my head? Here's a closeup of the left side where the thermocouple is attached:

View attachment 301355

Again, I greatly appreciate any advice you have on making this swap!

It is that simple in theory, but the actual process is a little harder.
If you can remove the entire gas train assembly it will be much easier to work on it on a bench as opposed to on your stomach on the floor.
The "Flame level knob" is actually the regulator and that spring and diaphragm are important components.

 

[DAKSY]

Take a look at how the bottom panel in the firebox is secured. Like Lennox65 indicated it’s easier to do the work at a bench top. If you get the gas line removed, the bottom panel & valve can be lifted out as an assembly. The newer models have anywhere from 7 - 15 screws holding the panel in. Whatever route you take, take pictures at each step for reference. If you want to take this over to a private message, we can do it that way. Your call.

 

[pirateforhire]

It is that simple in theory, but the actual process is a little harder.
If you can remove the entire gas train assembly it will be much easier to work on it on a bench as opposed to on your stomach on the floor.
The "Flame level knob" is actually the regulator and that spring and diaphragm are important components.

Yeah, we gathered that the regulator with the spring and diaphragm are important. What we found on Youtube had us believing that might have been what needed to be replaced. But obviously we only had half the picture at that point.

Unless we're not looking in the right place, it doesn't look like those components get sold on their own. We've only seen them as part of the valve (what I linked to in my first post) or a conversion kit (which doesn't appear to be compatible with our valve). Did we miss something easier we should try doing first?

Thanks for pointing out that removing the entire train assembly is an option. Never would have thought of that!

 

[pirateforhire]

Take a look at how the bottom panel in the firebox is secured. Like Lennox65 indicated it’s easier to do the work at a bench top. If you get the gas line removed, the bottom panel & valve can be lifted out as an assembly. The newer models have anywhere from 7 - 15 screws holding the panel in. Whatever route you take, take pictures at each step for reference. If you want to take this over to a private message, we can do it that way. Your call.

I'm happy to leave this discussion as a public thread, since it seems like lots of this info isn't easy to find on the internet. I'd love to help make it easier for the next guy.

So I'm gonna order the part and have to wait for it to arrive. But in the meantime I'm gonna take a look at how many screws I got and keep ya'll posted with any more questions. Really appreciate the advice so far!

 

[Lennox65]

"Did we miss something easier we should try doing first?"
What was the original problem? How did you come to the conclusion that the regulator was bad?
There are some troubleshooting tests that can help narrow down the problem before replacing the valve.

 

[pirateforhire]

"Did we miss something easier we should try doing first?"
What was the original problem? How did you come to the conclusion that the regulator was bad?
There are some troubleshooting tests that can help narrow down the problem before replacing the valve.

Our fireplace guy told us it was a faulty valve. We just thought we'd try something like a set screw adjustment first, in case that's all it was. We're not sure what troubleshooting he did.

 

[DAKSY]

What were the symptoms that prompted you to call the tech?

 

[pirateforhire]

What we’re the symptoms that prompted you to call the tech?

The flame was very small, even on the high setting. Probably a 5th of what it normally was. They had just been out to service it a month prior too.

Unfortunately, we hadn't paid attention to how high the flame was right after they left the first time and didn't use it until we found the flame issue.

 

[Lennox65]

The flame was very small, even on the high setting. Probably a 5th of what it normally was. They had just been out to service it a month prior too.

Unfortunately, we hadn't paid attention to how high the flame was right after they left the first time and didn't use it until we found the flame issue.

If everything was working properly and the only problem was a low flame, then it is probably not a problem with the valve.
It could be gas pressure or a partially blocked gas supply line, orifice, or burner.
The air shutter may be set incorrectly and the log placement and ember material placement can all affect flame height if not done correctly.

 

[pirateforhire]

We definitely checked the log position, I did that one myself and it's not the problem.

So, the full story comes out.... I actually had that same list of troubleshooting steps. I gave it to my husband and he was removing the knob as an attempt to adjust the air shutter (even tho I told him all the tutorials I saw did not require removing the knob to do so). In the process he lost a small part connecting the spring and the diaphragm.

The valve is definitely a problem for us now, even if it may have been a simpler solution before. We're consoling ourselves with the fact the fireplace guy did say he thought it was the valve.

 

[Lennox65]

We definitely checked the log position, I did that one myself and it's not the problem.

So, the full story comes out.... I actually had that same list of troubleshooting steps. I gave it to my husband and he was removing the knob as an attempt to adjust the air shutter (even tho I told him all the tutorials I saw did not require removing the knob to do so). In the process he lost a small part connecting the spring and the diaphragm.

The valve is definitely a problem for us now, even if it may have been a simpler solution before. We're consoling ourselves with the fact the fireplace guy did say he thought it was the valve.

Yeah, I know which piece you lost. This part should be what you need:https://woodheatstoves.com/products/sit-820-nova-conversion-kit-ng-14-1031
I have put all the parts of a regulator back together after removing them by accident. I had to remove the valve to do it though because the parts fall out unless the valve is sitting face up.
This part just screws on. Just make sure that the gasket is oriented correctly.

 

[pirateforhire]

Yeah, I know which piece you lost. This part should be what you need:https://woodheatstoves.com/products/sit-820-nova-conversion-kit-ng-14-1031
I have put all the parts of a regulator back together after removing them by accident. I had to remove the valve to do it though because the parts fall out unless the valve is sitting face up.
This part just screws on. Just make sure that the gasket is oriented correctly.

So we saw that part, but thought it was only compatible with the no turndown valve, not the 30% turndown valve that we have? Obviously the little part we lost is probably in both, but the idea of not being able to do a complete replacement is a bummer if it's not compatible.

Our thought process was also that if the valve is already 15 years old and we had to take it all the way out anyways, that it's only an extra $30 for a whole new valve that includes this part. As a small investment in further longevity of the fireplace. Or are these new valves nowhere near as good quality? I did see some reviews online of people having to return them because they were dead on arrival:

SIT 820 Series Millivolt Fireplace Valve 30% Turndown Natural Gas

For Propane version click here - Propane SIT quick dropout gas valve Natural Gas 30% turndown (1.6"- 3.5" wc) 3/8" inlet / outlet Requires thermopile and thermocouple for operation NOT FOR VENT FREECross ReferenceAmbiance Fireplaces: 308-0013American Hearth (Empire): R7577Archgard...

www.fire-parts.com

Thanks again for all the great advice and input!

 

[Lennox65]

So we saw that part, but thought it was only compatible with the no turndown valve, not the 30% turndown valve that we have? Obviously the little part we lost is probably in both, but the idea of not being able to do a complete replacement is a bummer if it's not compatible.

Our thought process was also that if the valve is already 15 years old and we had to take it all the way out anyways, that it's only an extra $30 for a whole new valve that includes this part. As a small investment in further longevity of the fireplace. Or are these new valves nowhere near as good quality? I did see some reviews online of people having to return them because they were dead on arrival:

SIT 820 Series Millivolt Fireplace Valve 30% Turndown Natural Gas

For Propane version click here - Propane SIT quick dropout gas valve Natural Gas 30% turndown (1.6"- 3.5" wc) 3/8" inlet / outlet Requires thermopile and thermocouple for operation NOT FOR VENT FREECross ReferenceAmbiance Fireplaces: 308-0013American Hearth (Empire): R7577Archgard...

www.fire-parts.com

Thanks again for all the great advice and input!

It is the correct replacement for your valve. If it were fixed it would not have the "High/Low" knob.
I don't have any recent experience with the SIT valves, as I have been working with a different type of valve for the last ten years.
I will say though that in almost 30 years in the business, I have only had to replace a few valves. They typically don't fail.

I understand your frustration but the symptoms that you described do not point to a problem with the valve, and if you replace the valve
you may find that you have the exact same low flame. I would check the inlet and outlet pressure and make sure that there are no obstructions in the gas supply or the orifices before replacing the valve.

 

[pirateforhire]

It is the correct replacement for your valve. If it were fixed it would not have the "High/Low" knob.
I don't have any recent experience with the SIT valves, as I have been working with a different type of valve for the last ten years.
I will say though that in almost 30 years in the business, I have only had to replace a few valves. They typically don't fail.

I understand your frustration but the symptoms that you described do not point to a problem with the valve, and if you replace the valve
you may find that you have the exact same low flame. I would check the inlet and outlet pressure and make sure that there are no obstructions in the gas supply or the orifices before replacing the valve.

Oh, of course. We know that even if we replace the valve, those the other problem likely still exists. We're just trying to figure out the best course of action for fixing the problem we caused by losing that part. Until we fix that, we can't test the fireplace to figure out if any of the other steps solve the problem lol.

It's good to know the valves don't normally fail. Some of the stuff we saw online had us believing they only last about 20 years. That definitely makes buying the replacement part you recommended seem more reasonable. Thank you!

 

[pirateforhire]

Hey Fellas. We were finally able to get the conversion kit part to fix the problem we created with the hi/lo knob and have gone through the various troubleshooting steps.

The outlet pressure is a little low at 3.2 (we saw 3.5 as minimum recommended). Inlet pressure was fine at 8.2. We took the burner and everything apart and cleaned up what little debris we did find. We also tried adjusting the air shutter underneath the burner (to open it a little more).

We also checked the vent on the roof to make sure there were no obstructions. Related: we had a bunch of monsoon rains earlier this summer that made the fireplace smell very smoky (wood to gas conversion), so we thought maybe we had a leak and moisture had gotten in. When the fireplace was serviced a couple months ago (after the rain), we had the fireplace guy check it and he said it looked fine and just advised we leave the pilot light on for the smell. Sharing in case this info is relevant in any way.

Unfortunately, we're still having small blue flames. Here's t a link to a video of the fireplace startup, as the other detail that may be a clue is that the flames aren't coming on all at once like they used to.

0 new items by N Hart

photos.app.goo.gl

We've also left the fireplace running long enough for the blower to kick on and the flames don't get any higher. This is on the highest setting.

Is there another spot we should clean that we've missed? We vacuumed underneath the burner when we had it off for the air shutter adjustment, around the air shutter (where the burner orifice is) and the tube connecting it and the burner. We didn't fully disconnect the tube to get a paper clip into the actual burner orifice, but we did use a small brush against the tip through the air shutter hole. It honestly looked pretty clean and we didn't catch any webs.

Any other ideas? Would greatly appreciate some pointers for next steps as we've exhausted most of the ideas we've found online.

 

[Lennox65]

Hey Fellas. We were finally able to get the conversion kit part to fix the problem we created with the hi/lo knob and have gone through the various troubleshooting steps.

The outlet pressure is a little low at 3.2 (we saw 3.5 as minimum recommended). Inlet pressure was fine at 8.2. We took the burner and everything apart and cleaned up what little debris we did find. We also tried adjusting the air shutter underneath the burner (to open it a little more).

We also checked the vent on the roof to make sure there were no obstructions. Related: we had a bunch of monsoon rains earlier this summer that made the fireplace smell very smoky (wood to gas conversion), so we thought maybe we had a leak and moisture had gotten in. When the fireplace was serviced a couple months ago (after the rain), we had the fireplace guy check it and he said it looked fine and just advised we leave the pilot light on for the smell. Sharing in case this info is relevant in any way.

Unfortunately, we're still having small blue flames. Here's t a link to a video of the fireplace startup, as the other detail that may be a clue is that the flames aren't coming on all at once like they used to.

0 new items by N Hart

photos.app.goo.gl

We've also left the fireplace running long enough for the blower to kick on and the flames don't get any higher. This is on the highest setting.

Is there another spot we should clean that we've missed? We vacuumed underneath the burner when we had it off for the air shutter adjustment, around the air shutter (where the burner orifice is) and the tube connecting it and the burner. We didn't fully disconnect the tube to get a paper clip into the actual burner orifice, but we did use a small brush against the tip through the air shutter hole. It honestly looked pretty clean and we didn't catch any webs.

Any other ideas? Would greatly appreciate some pointers for next steps as we've exhausted most of the ideas we've found online.

Closing the air shutter (incrementally so that it doesn't cause sooting) typically helps with adding some yellow to the blue flame and usually results in a slightly larger flame.
Was the 3.2 outlet pressure measured with the fireplace running and the knob turned to 'High"

 

[pirateforhire]

Closing the air shutter (incrementally so that it doesn't cause sooting) typically helps with adding some yellow to the blue flame and usually results in a slightly larger flame.
Was the 3.2 outlet pressure measured with the fireplace running and the knob turned to 'High"

Ok, we'll try closing it some next. We kept seeing conflicting info on open vs close, but what we did had zero effect anyways.

The outlet pressure was measured while it was running and the knob was turned to high.

 

[pirateforhire]

Well, we closed the air shutter a bit without any additional change. So we finally decided to take out the whole burner neck so we could really get to the burner orifice. We found a web very deep inside the orifice and that solved it!

I originally tried the paperclip trick to clean it, but that didn't help. I ended up having to use a tiny crochet hook to pull it the webbing, but is there a good tool or brush for cleaning this out better? My tiniest cleaning brush for regular household stuff is too large for the orifice.

Super glad that we didn't listen to the fireplace company that told us we needed to replace the valve. Thank you for all your help!