Having trouble with P23I(1999) burn-pot ugrade cannot burn at C setting

[TacoBello]

I replaced my Auger motor last night and noticed it was 1.3 RMP not 1.0RMP but i was desperate enough to install it in order to get ready for the cold whether coming. I also noticed that the high temp rubber hose line, sourced from the combustion exhaust chamber to the vacuum switch. so i replaced that too. Also, ordered the new upgraded burn-port and installed that too.
When I'm in C setting the intake air is close to 1/4 open. Before with the original burn-pot, I had it close to fully open. The ash was fine white powder that would cover the base of the fire box and on the heat exchange tubes. I have a great strong flame but on the 2 highest settings but, I'm not happy the low amount of intake air I have to use to avoid the half burned pellets blowing out of the burn pot. I have settings Low, B, C and High. when in Low and B setting, the circular fan can be set to high or low. The burn port works great if the intake are is set for 1/4 shy opened and low convection fan speed. I ask Breckwell tech support and they said it takes some time getting use to setting the correct intake air, but I'm still in disbelief about the 1/4 open intake air it should be close to full-3/4 open.

For the past 2 nights I found a setting that didn't have a lazy flame and produced the minimum amount of "fireflies". Again the intake air could only be set to 1/4 opened at most. The result after 8 hrs of running on C level was horrendous. The ash was as high as the burn-pot top surface. The ash particles were big and black and also hot, meaning the burning pellets did not get enough oxygen in the fire and the half-burn pellets ended up getting blown out of the burn-pot too early. The pellet stove heat in my opinion was way too hot. Sunday morning I replaced the burn pot with the original one and everything back to normal.

I read a thread somewhere that if the ash is black then I'm not getting enough intake are. I really do believe that there is no setting that will burn the pellets hot enough without blowing out the burning pellets. Low and B level work absolutely perfect. The Flame is strong and the ash is tolerable, but C and High level is the most dangerous mix with this model year with this burn-pot upgrade. I think the speed of the combustion blower needs to be adjusted when in C and High setting. This leads me to believe if I want the burn-pot to work I need to upgrade my control panel to the digital one. Thats only if the controler board is smart enough to adjust the combustion and/or convection blower speed.

Questions:
1.) With the digital control panel(A-E-057KIT), how many fan speeds are available in C and High mode Couldn't tell by the manual? Only read that there was a manual setting for low and high convection and depending on temp, the convection was canned to high if stove temp was above some temp.
2.) Is the controller board smart enough to adjust combustion speed, based on pellet-rate or is it a constant 3000 rpm?
3.) I understand convection air has nothing to do with the combustion air or the size of the flame.
But why in my case does it makes a difference ?

It just doesn't make sense. There is no way the intake air can be set to anything over 1/4 opened or half burned pellets fly out.
Has anyone had this issue with there P231 Breckwell ?
And before you ask, I keep my pellet stove clean at all times. I clean it every day. I do the monthlies once a week. After 2 tons I do the annuals. I Sift my pellets, clean my glass, clean the burn pot..the works.
Thanks in advance

Breckwell p23I s/n 1557
1 RMP Auger, mfg date 1999

 

[jtakeman]

I'm assuming your old burn pot looked like this?

 

[TacoBello]

yes but a little different. the burnport is the same size and i see the ignighter hole. howerver, the the burn pot i have is 2 piece. Where the piece with the holes in it is removable. I don't believe this one was made by Breckwell. How would you clean under the part with the holes in it if is welded to the bottom box ? unless it is open at the botton for a ash drop.

 

[jtakeman]

I was just wondering if it was the new burn pot that required less air. Try putting your old burnpot back in and see where you have to set the draft air.

Questions:
1.) With the digital control panel(A-E-057KIT), how many fan speeds are available in C and High mode Couldn't tell by the manual? Only read that there was a manual setting for low and high convection and depending on temp, the convection was canned to high if stove temp was above some temp.
2.) Is the controller board smart enough to adjust combustion speed, based on pellet-rate or is it a constant 3000 rpm?
3.) I understand convection air has nothing to do with the combustion air or the size of the flame.
But why in my case does it makes a difference ?

It just doesn't make sense. There is no way the intake air can be set to anything over 1/4 opened or half burned pellets fly out.
Has anyone had this issue with there P231 Breckwell ?
And before you ask, I keep my pellet stove clean at all times. I clean it every day. I do the monthlies once a week. After 2 tons I do the annuals. I Sift my pellets, clean my glass, clean the burn pot..the works.
Thanks in advance

Breckwell p23I s/n 1557
1 RMP Auger, mfg date 1999

Answers
1.) 2-High and Low. High is automatic with the higher heat.
2.) No, I don't think the control will vary the blower speed on combustion. Just the Convection blower has variable speed.
3.) I would think the only way Convection air would affect the combustion is if you had a bad or leaky heat exchanger!

jay

 

[TacoBello]

draft air with the old burnpot is between full and 3/4 opened. With the new burnpot it requires a 1/4 +/- 1/8
Curious,
Thanks for your response. Where did that burn pot come from ?
mike

 

[jtakeman]

Mike,

Could you post a photo of the inside of each burn pot. I'll bet breckwell added more holes to the new burn pot. Causing more air to rush thru it!

Should be ok to just turn the draft down. I will also bet that you will have to close the draft almost all the way to run on the Low setting. I have a big E that I can't get it to run on the 1 setting. Unless my burnpot is dirty and half plugged.

The photo came from this site http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/breckwell_parts.htm

Glad I could help! I had a hunch that was the issue.

jay

 

[TacoBello]

Jay,
i strongly agree. I was just talking to a coworker this morning about welding a 1/4 plate under the Burn insert part reducing the air flow to half.
The pic with the box is the original one i received from Breckwell. the other is what i'm proposing.

 

[ken3698]

I have the P23I and purchased it about a year ago.. My burnpot is the same as your new one. This is about the 5th post that I read about complaints of to much airflow. This being my first stove, I thought it was normal. I also can only keep it about 1/4 open.. What I'm confused at is, what's wrong with that? At 1/4 open the pellets burn hot and I get great heat. I don't have a lazy flame at all. My ash and "clinkers" only change when I change the brand of pellet I'm using. Currently I'm trying the PA pellets for the first time and now after over 200 bags of pellets, These pellets dirty my pot worse than I have ever seen with solid clinkers forming that sometime shut the stove down on setting #1. I blame the pellets not the airflow.

 

[TacoBello]

Ken,
Do you have allot of black ash ? do you burn 1/4 with setting to 4 or 5 ?I could not get the pellets to burn entirely without blowing them out of the burn port prematurely. I sent a second email to beckwell. sounds like i need to fix this myself. I have the old burn pot that is similar to post above and my ash is white and fine and the flame is blue at the base of it.
Your question:
What I’m confused at is, what’s wrong with that? At 1/4 open the pellets burn hot and I get great heat. Nothing it wrong unless your ash is black and coarse.
Less fresh air feeding the fire, the more ash u will create. Is your ash white powdery and fine or is it black and coarse ? Black means not enough combustion air feeding the fire..which I was having at 1/4 open in Level C aka 2nd to highest. White/gray means your burn rate and intake air is good. For your year i think your not as bad of shape than i am. I think they changed the blower speeds/motors on the new 2005+ model on the combustion air. i saw a p23 in the dealers shop last week and the combustion motor and assembly was completely different than mine. I got an older model 1999.

Let me know about your ash I'm very curious,
thanks,
mike

 

[jtakeman]

Ken,

The only issue is the low feed on some stoves. You will not be able to keep the stove running. Burns the pellets up faster than you can feed them. Even with the damper fully closed.(due to a factory made hole in damper plate)

Mike,

I think if you welded every other hole, You'd have the same pot as the old. I think Breckwell tried to add more holes to reduce the cleaning of the newer pot.

I just don't run my stove lower than the 2 setting and my damper is almost closed. The only issue i have is when you have a power outage. The stove restarts on the 1 setting. So I return home to a cold house. The fire will start and burn out and tends to leave a smell in the house. Kinda like burning leaves in my basement. Only after a power outage so its kinda rare.

The only other thing is to make a new damper plate. with out a hole in it. This will also reduce the air at low damper setting. But I would also limit how far you can close the damper, So you wouldn't over choke the lower fire settings. Or maybe just a smaller hole in the plate???
Just rambling on.

Jay

 

[TacoBello]

Jay,
i just cleaned my pellet stove after work. Take a look at the number and size of the holes with the original one. I was thinking take a 1/4" piece that would fit inside flat at the bottom of the new one and drill smaller holes, matching the same diameter of the old one and drill every other. If that doesn't do the trick do a few more uniformly till its just right. Where the ash flies out and flame is strong and hot. I'mm realy looking for that white/gray ash..no black.
your thoughts ?
Mike

 

[ken3698]

Mike,

Yes the ash is very black... I have probably burned about seven different types of pellets over the last year and this new PA pellet is the first I've seen this black. When I stir the pot using these pellets, there's like a fine black sand inside the pot. So, when I crank the air up a little, this black ash fly's out, but the air blows the flame out on the lowest setting. I have learned to just leave the air low and not stir the pot. I still get great heat about 220F on the first tube. I work for a high temperature insulation company and have acess to every temperature measuring device known to man. I've measured heat flow vs. air setting on many types of pellets. The best output I ever saw was on Alleghany pellets at 228F. If you have any advice or guidance I would love to hear about it. Thanks Ken

 

[jtakeman]

Jay,
i just cleaned my pellet stove after work. Take a look at the number and size of the holes with the original one. I was thinking take a 1/4" piece that would fit inside flat at the bottom of the new one and drill smaller holes, matching the same diameter of the old one and drill every other. If that doesn't do the trick do a few more uniformly till its just right. Where the ash flies out and flame is strong and hot. I'mm realy looking for that white/gray ash..no black.
your thoughts ?
Mike

Mike

It should work fine. I would at least tack weld the plate to the bottom though, Otherwise your would have to chase it around when you scrap. If the old pot burnd well you should be able to just match the holes after you tack it in.

Try it can't hurt. I learn more when I play than when I work!

Jay

 

[TacoBello]

Ken n Jay,
Just wanted to put some closer to this thread. I found some time to "play around' with the new burnpot. I had made a cardboard(bud lite 12 pack box) template and made 2 different hole plates. I did allot of trial and error and probably spent more time than Breckwell ever did. I found the best holes size and configuration for the hole plate. The 1/4 steel plate is 3 5/16"strongx 2 3/8"strong and fits very "tight to the existing burnpots bottom side plates. I discovered you don't want the edges to be too loose. It will cause air to blow to the outer edges, making the flame hard to manage in C setting. I found that every other hole to be 9/64 dia and the others to be 11/64 dia. Since I was replacing one plate for another between trials, I didn't want to tack weld. The plate fits tight enough to where it doesn't move at all. So I'm in no rush to weld. I'll probable play with it a little more, but i believe I nailed it. This allows me to set the intake air at 3/4 with white/gray mix ash. Unbelievable difference. The time was well spent. I also can run the stove in the lowest setting, which I could never do before. I never could get my point across to Breckwell tech support. I think I forward this, just to let them know that I fixed their issue.

btw,
the cast steel predecessor burn pot didn't have as large holes as this new on.
(broken link removed)

 

[jtakeman]

Nice work Mike.

I wish Breckwell would vary there combustion blower speed Like the Enviro's do. That would kill the issues with High low setting.

I checked out the Maxx and The Omega this weekend. Nice stoves, Built like tanks. You can run on any setting once the draft is set to your fuel.

I ordered my Omega! So my Breckwell issue is solved. Plus I get more BTU's