He has been doing this for years....

[Jfk4th]

My father in law has had an Avalon Olympic insert for about 10 years now and this year I finally bought one just like his (freestanding though). He has never used a thermometer and I have always used one. His stove has always burned really well and get's cleaned professionally every other year.

Now here's the kicker....Last night I decided to put a Rutland thermo on his insert to see why the hell his stoves burns so much better than mine.

First off he uses newspaper, small pieces of cardboard, and 3 small splits to start the fire. It got to 400F very quickly-25 minutes. Then he put 2 medium sized splits in and it shot up to 900F in about a hour after that, then shortly after that the needle was buried. This stayed around 800-850F for about 5 hours as he added 1 split about every 1.5 hours of so. He keeps the main air control at about 2/3'rds closed after it gets going, and all you can see are flames into the air tubes, nicest burns I have ever seen.

I was pretty nervous seeing the temp but he has done this as long as I can remember, not changing his style, never using a thermometer. His stove is very clean, and when the company comes to clean it, very little powder comes off the pipes. His total pipe is not that much higher than mine, if at all and I have about 19 feet.

I know Avalons burn hot, but damn, how the hell is 800-850F OK for a system and doing this for about 10 years. Now again he does not have a fire every night, I would say maybe 2-3 times a week during the cold months, for about 6-8 hours at a time.

Should I try this? No smell at all, no smoke at all, and he is not worried about his stove. Oh by the way, my father in law is a doctor, and is a "Mr. Fix It" and is probably the smartest man I know.

I get nervous over 750F

Help? BeGreen

 

[begreen]

Well, can the stove take it? Yes though I can't say for how long.. Is it the most efficient way to burn, especially if you want to maximize burn times? Maybe not. Stay within your comfort zone JFK. Above 900 the stove is in overfire range.

My preference is to not put more wood on the fire until the coal bed has settled down and the stove temp has dropped below meaningful heat. On the Avalon, this might be around 350-400 stove top temp.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

My father in law has had an Avalon Olympic insert for about 10 years now and this year I finally bought one just like his (freestanding though). He has never used a thermometer and I have always used one. His stove has always burned really well and get's cleaned professionally every other year.

Now here's the kicker....Last night I decided to put a Rutland thermo on his insert to see why the hell his stoves burns so much better than mine.

First off he uses newspaper, small pieces of cardboard, and 3 small splits to start the fire. It got to 400F very quickly-25 minutes. Then he put 2 medium sized splits in and it shot up to 900F in about a hour after that, then shortly after that the needle was buried. This stayed around 800-850F for about 5 hours as he added 1 split about every 1.5 hours of so. He keeps the main air control at about 2/3'rds closed after it gets going, and all you can see are flames into the air tubes, nicest burns I have ever seen.

I was pretty nervous seeing the temp but he has done this as long as I can remember, not changing his style, never using a thermometer. His stove is very clean, and when the company comes to clean it, very little powder comes off the pipes. His total pipe is not that much higher than mine, if at all and I have about 19 feet.

I know Avalons burn hot, but damn, how the hell is 800-850F OK for a system and doing this for about 10 years. Now again he does not have a fire every night, I would say maybe 2-3 times a week during the cold months, for about 6-8 hours at a time.

Should I try this? No smell at all, no smoke at all, and he is not worried about his stove. Oh by the way, my father in law is a doctor, and is a "Mr. Fix It" and is probably the smartest man I know.

I get nervous over 750F

Help? BeGreen

BeGreen and me live in wood-heat central. I've been burning for over 30 years and never used a thermometer. I know dozens of people who have burned wood for generations and none of them use a thermometer. I didn't know such a thing even existed till I joined this forum last month.

Burn your stove however you like. Does it really matter that he burns cleaner than you? Do you stay warm?

WTF?

 

[Todd]

Where do you take temp readings on an insert? Does he remove the surround panels? The way he burns it you would go through much more firewood and probably be less efficient and send more heat up the chimney.

 

[Hogwildz]

I can't see 1 split every 1.5 hrs keeping a stove at 800 or 900 degrees.
And with 2/3 open air? Something ain't adding up here.
Just my 2 cents, not busting balls.

 

[budman]

I can't see 1 split every 1.5 hrs keeping a stove at 800 or 900 degrees.
And with 2/3 open air? Something ain't adding up here.
Just my 2 cents, not busting balls.

I was thinking the same.

 

[bokehman]

I was thinking the same.

The stove top on that unit is 29" x 21". At 900ºF it's radiating 41 BTU's per square inch per hour.
29 x 21 x 41 = 24969 BTU's/hour. At 70% efficiency 35670 BTU's of wood. Quantity of wood at 6800 BTU's/lb = 5.25 lb/hour. That's just to keep the stove top at temperature though, it doesn't consider keeping the rest of the stove.

 

[Jfk4th]

I can't see 1 split every 1.5 hrs keeping a stove at 800 or 900 degrees.
And with 2/3 open air? Something ain't adding up here.
Just my 2 cents, not busting balls.

I understand you are not busting balls, but this is true. I know this is not the "best" way to burn, I just could not believe it when I saw it. I was thinking maybe 650-700F before I put a thermo on but it hung around 800-850F. One decent sized split and I use much bigger splits than he does lasted for about 1.5 hours each time

Two/thirds closed down(pulled out). I think you just phrased it a little differently but we mean the same. He gets great secondary burns

Overall I guess I just amazed he has had no problems ever burning like this, the stove is clean, the pipes are clean, heat pours out of the stove into the rooms. I guess you can get away with it if you are not using the stove as a main heat source, just a change in scenery.

 

[Jfk4th]

Well, can the stove take it? Yes though I can't say for how long.. Is it the most efficient way to burn, especially if you want to maximize burn times? Maybe not. Stay within your comfort zone JFK. Above 900 the stove is in overfire range.

My preference is to not put more wood on the fire until the coal bed has settled down and the stove temp has dropped below meaningful heat. On the Avalon, this might be around 350-400 stove top temp.

Yep I agree BeGreen, I am only comfortable around 500-550F for a long burn, maybe getting up to 650-700F at peak time.

You should have seen me when I saw that needle bury, I was like my dog when he gets caught in the garbage can...pretty damn scared

 

[Jfk4th]

Where do you take temp readings on an insert? Does he remove the surround panels? The way he burns it you would go through much more firewood and probably be less efficient and send more heat up the chimney.

He definitely goes through more wood that way, but again fires for him are a social thing, not a main source heat thing. More heat goes up the chimney, probably not that much more as heat is pouring out of that stove into his huge rooms, 2/3 closed down. He does not even use his blower many times, high cathedral ceilings to boot
He puts the therm in the same spot as I do as my freestanding, right in the middle of the stove, to the right of the top by pass.

 

[Jfk4th]

I was thinking the same.

The stove top on that unit is 29" x 21". At 900ºF it's radiating 41 BTU's per square inch per hour.
29 x 21 x 41 = 24969 BTU's/hour. At 70% efficiency 35670 BTU's of wood. Quantity of wood at 6800 BTU's/lb = 5.25 lb/hour. That's just to keep the stove top at temperature though, it doesn't consider keeping the rest of the stove.

I guess I am not a numbers guy so what do you think bokeman? Does it add up? I wish I could take a 4 or 5 hour video and show everybody. I think he uses silver maple and cherry many times

 

[SlyFerret]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I don't trust the little magnetic stove thermometers.

-SF

 

[stanb999]

I was thinking the same.

The stove top on that unit is 29" x 21". At 900ºF it's radiating 41 BTU's per square inch per hour.
29 x 21 x 41 = 24969 BTU's/hour. At 70% efficiency 35670 BTU's of wood. Quantity of wood at 6800 BTU's/lb = 5.25 lb/hour. That's just to keep the stove top at temperature though, it doesn't consider keeping the rest of the stove.

I guess I am not a numbers guy so what do you think bokeman? Does it add up? I wish I could take a 4 or 5 hour video and show everybody. I think he uses silver maple and cherry many times

I think what he is getting at is because his is an insert and yours is free standing the thermal mass exposed to rapid cooling is different.
He has less stove exposed to the air so his would naturally burn hotter all else being the same.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I burn like Begreen.
Add wood to remaining coals
But with no temp gauge

You, my friend- just got haiku'd

 

[BrotherBart]

If you burn like BeGreen

Adding wood to burning coals

But never use a temp gauge

Your stove might end up full of holes

Burma Shave


(For those saying "What the heck is Burma Shave and unfamiliar with their signs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma-Shave)

 

[bokehman]

I am not a numbers guy so what do you think bokeman? Does it add up?

Let say the rest of the stove (4 sides and the base) is radiating an equal amount as the top. It must be at least that because it is four time the area, although quite a bit cooler. That would mean 10.5 lb/hour plus anything wasted going up the flue. If he puts in 1 split every 1.5 hours that split would need to weigh at least 15 lb. Just weigh a split and see. My guess is a good bit of solid oak about 18" x 7" x 7", but a piece of wood like that wouldn't have the surface area to burn down in an hour and a half, and once the flames die it has only released half its BTU value.

The other possibility is the thermometer is a mile out. He's running his stove at say 650ºF and you are running yours a lot lower.

 

[Corey]

When I need the heat, I've run my stove up to ~800-850F or a little higher during the past 5+ years. I don't really know how to explain it, but there almost seems to be a 'zone' where everything just comes together for a 'perfect (fire) storm'. The stove is burning very hot and very clean, so efficiency is maximized. Because the efficiency is so high, you can really throttle back on the air which slows the airflow through the stove. This leads to a relatively long 'retention time' for the flue gas - they have a lot of time to give up heat through the stove and a lot of time to burn up all smoke, which leads back to max efficiency and starts the cycle all over again. Looking inside the stove, you almost get the impression that even the air is on fire - very lazy dancing 'flames' virtually everywhere inside the firebox - many times they don't appear to even be coming directly from the wood. It is almost like the heat is baking volatiles out of the wood which are then combusting in the air. The intense heat is baking out more volatiles and continuing the cycle.

My 'problem' is that due to the way I burn...(come home to a cold house, big fire for quick heat, throw in a few logs for overnight and let the fire go out in the morning) I got a fairly large stove. When that mass of steel hits 850F, you're getting some serious heat. So I can't even approach burning like that until January/February. November, December, and March require a different style of burning.

 

[Jfk4th]

I am not a numbers guy so what do you think bokeman? Does it add up?

Let say the rest of the stove (4 sides and the base) is radiating an equal amount as the top. It must be at least that because it is four time the area, although quite a bit cooler. That would mean 10.5 lb/hour plus anything wasted going up the flue. If he puts in 1 split every 1.5 hours that split would need to weigh at least 15 lb. Just weigh a split and see. My guess is a good bit of solid oak about 18" x 7" x 7", but a piece of wood like that wouldn't have the surface area to burn down in an hour and a half, and once the flames die it has only released half its BTU value.

The other possibility is the thermometer is a mile out. He's running his stove at say 650ºF and you are running yours a lot lower.

The thermo could be wrong but I used the same one that I put on my stove top, I just took mine off yesterday to try on his. Just for more info, My father in law waits until there are coals before he puts a split on, what if the time difference was closer to one hour as opposed to 1.5 hours, not that big of a difference?

Maybe stanb999's post is right? Insert will give different temps than a freestanding?

I have noticed that my father in laws stove has 2 burn tubes and air holes in back "wall" of the insert. I have 3 burn tubes (no air holes in back wall), would this make a difference? Still stumped 8-/

 

[woodconvert]

WOW...how many forums can you go to get haiku's and Burma Shave commercials in one thread????.

 

[Jfk4th]

WOW...how many forums can you go to get haiku's and Burma Shave commercials in one thread????.

I know I feel very special today :lol: