Hearthstone Heritage - getting out enough heat - suggestions?

[ancientoaks]

Newbies to soapstone. Got our 'draft' and chimney issues handled (we think). But - cannot seem to get enough heat and/or burn time. Have always had cast stoves, so could use some stonies' advice!
Love the look of this stove. so really want to make this work.

stats"
NEW house (just moved in xmas eve) Small footprint, 32' x 42' with a half story up, andersen casements, upgraded insul, etc etc - located Middle Tennesse - av winter daytime 45 degrees, nites 15- 20 degrees about 5 times yearly. NO drywall, all pine planking ('old' new farmhouse)

stove is located in corner of 32' x 24' great room on slate hearth with slate surround, stove pipe straight up - single wall black until ceiling (9' ceilings)

wood - all hardwood, mostly oak, maple hickory, a little poplar - down a year, but not split and stacked a year.

hopefully someone can give us 'some learnin' on how to get the most out of this stove

PROBLEM
when it goes below 25 degreea out, we cannot get this 740 sq ft room above 63 degrees (so are scared to death to think about 5 degrees!), even by leaving air control wide open (and if we do that the burn time is about 3 hours MAX). At night, if we load at about 10 pm, on a high fire, then damp down to hold the fire, room is COLD by am as stove has cooled enough to keep your hand on the surface. Only coals are left even doing this. Today it's about 50 degrees out and even roaring, this room is just above 72 degrees (warmer than we'd like but we wanted to see if we could GET it warm). We would like to be able to keep the room at about 65 degrees even if the outside drops to 5 - 10 degrees , which it does about 5 times a year...the pluses are, this stove NEVER smokes, even when opening the loading door (this is a first, never had a stove that didnt' require a careful, slow door opening), it is stunning and has a lovely viewing window that stays clean, it has an even heat, even if not yet enough....and it is made beautifully, heavy duty and everything fits well...(ash pan is HORRIBLE, useless design so we just shovel out the ashes, no big deal)..

Have read some reviews here at Hearth.com and most like the stove altho I read a couple with similar problem as above, but no solutions..How is it that some people are heating their whole house with this stove, and we are having trouble heating 740 sq ft (stove is rated for 1900 sq ft).?
ANY advice is appreciated, we just put it in Jan 30 so feel we have alot to learn and sure hope to find out what we are doing wrong!! Or did we spend $2,000 for a stove that is NOT capable of heating this place?. It's nothing like our old Vermont Reliant...which usually had a problem getting TOO hot....quite a difference, especially since we were never very concerned about the quality of the wood in those days~!.

thanks in advance!
Deb

 

[jtp10181]

How long has the wood been split exactly? From the info about the "no smoke" and the glass staying clean it sounds like the wood should be OK but I am just wondering.

How full are you packing it? Are you loading it as night when its already hot or is this a cold start?

 

[Todd]

The new stove will take some getting use to. Give it a couple weeks to get to know the stove. You say you wood is 1 year old, but not split 1 year? When was it split? Seasoned wood is a must for EPA stoves. What are your stove top temps?

 

[Highbeam]

I saw that too, no mention of stove top temps. Step #1 get a stove top thermometer and set it on the middle of the top like the manual directs. You'll want the stove top at 500 for max heat output and you have up to 600 before technical overfire occurs with risk of stone breakage.

Then you mention a footprint of 32 x24 but with half stories and great rooms. Is there more than 740 SF total and is there a cathedral ceiling involved? How tall is the actual chimney? How thick are your splits? I have better luck with the smallish 4 inch or so.

My best guess with the given information is a combination of wetter wood and low stove temps. You're not getting the thing rocking. Even wet wood will leave the glass clean as the heritage has an excellent air wash.

 

[paulie]

keep in mind a soapstone, and a steel/cast are two different animals once it is hot you should easily heat that 750 ft. I have 1329 ft. open loft, 21 ft ceiling, 1bdroom,and bath seperate from living area downstairs. I am running 450 to 500 this morning it is 32* out, I have brought the temp fromm 63* to 68* in about 2 1/2 hours. "from a cold stove start" I would check your wood ! as I have learned here, unproperly seasoned wood is the cause of many, many problems. I thought I had good wood at one point, until I did get REAL seasoned stuff....it's like night and day!

 

[swestall]

Everyone has good suggestions. Highbeam's esp. You need to know what temps you are getting to. To heat you need that stove up to at least 400, 450-500 is better; and you need it there for an extended time so the house can absorb that heat. The soapstone will just keep putting it out at that temp.
Also, you should close the primary air down when you get the stove hot enough to keep the secondary burn going with the primary shut. You'll have lots of rolling flames at the top for at least 20 minutes then give it a try; you'll learn how it behaves after a while. This will give you the max heat from the wood. If you find the secondaries stop burning, do it over again. Eventually, you'll know how it behaves.
You have to keep it burning to get the best performance. Its not one of those stoves that you lite up, heat for a while and let it die. Its a stove that likes to run and puts out nice heat constantly.
As far as burning, you can load a few splits and find it will give as much heat as a full load. You really only need to stuff it for long burns. (overnight and daylong)
Any stove is going to burn down, you should get 8 hours off this one with coals left to start a new fire, etc. If you aren't getting that, you might have gone the other way and gotten a draft a bit strong.
You are correct on the ashes. I saw a tip from a PE owner that I'm doing, I take out a few scoops every day, that leaves me a smaller chore on ash day. Once a week, I really clean it out and bring wood in. Once you get the hang of it, you won't want to go back and you'll find you are using less wood.

 

[buckeye]

its about 35 in ohio today and Im heating my house to 70. About 2 hours ago I put in one 5-6" split and 3 3-4" rounds. As I look at the rutland on the center of the stove it is running about 400-420 and putting off pretty good heat. I usually load and let the wood get going for about 15 minutes, the take the air down a little less than 1/2 let it run another 15 minutes and knock the air down almost all the way. Watch the secondary go to town for the next 1 1/2- 2 hours and start turning the air back up as the fire burns down.
This is my first year burning the hertiage and Im learning alot. The method I described above may not be the best, but it seems to be working for me. I have had far less coals to try to burn down and It keeps the stove temp. up pretty well.
You will notice a huge difference in heat output from 350 to 500 or so. At 350 Im just basically maintaining. At 450+ Im really heating.
Once you get the hang of the soap stone, I think you will love it for its performance as much as for its looks.

 

[ancientoaks]

I saw that too, no mention of stove top temps. Step #1 get a stove top thermometer and set it on the middle of the top like the manual directs. You'll want the stove top at 500 for max heat output and you have up to 600 before technical overfire occurs with risk of stone breakage.

Then you mention a footprint of 32 x24 but with half stories and great rooms. Is there more than 740 SF total and is there a cathedral ceiling involved? How tall is the actual chimney? How thick are your splits? I have better luck with the smallish 4 inch or so.

My best guess with the given information is a combination of wetter wood and low stove temps. You're not getting the thing rocking. Even wet wood will leave the glass clean as the heritage has an excellent air wash.

answer 1 - main living, dining, kitchen room is 9' ceilings, 24 x 32, mud room off this room 10 x 14. bedroom same floor but door kept shut w/aux heat in that room. closed , but no doorway, stairway to second floor with two rooms kept shut off from hall.
answer 2. inside chimeny is about 6' 8" where it enters ceiling collar.
answer 3. found that our splits were better at about 3-4" as they 'caught' quicker and easier.


This load of wood was NOT split when delivered (since we built most of our house ourselves, we had no time to cut wood the past summer), was a year down, but I think you all are right in that, not being split, cannot season properly. I now realize the EPA stoves are apparently fussier by design than our 1978 Vermont. So we will work at getting better wood.
Our main problem is we cannot GET the stove hot enough without using pine boards (a no no I heard) to really flame it up, and then it will only last 30 mn or so, or until we put enough hardwood on the fire. We WILL get a stove thermometer, not an easy find out here in the sticks, but it will be found this week! I doubt, except the one time with the load of pine boards, that we have ever had the stove at 400 degrees, as I have always been able to touch the stone (albeit quickly) without a problem (except in the rear or sides of the stove, which get VERY hot)

I appreciate the one poster's detailed 'procedure'. I will print it out and try it. We feel that this is just deeper learning curve than our old experiences (husband is 70 yrs old and grew up out west on a ranch with wood stoves, heating and cooking) and we have never had a new stove. Certainly don't intend to blame the stove at all...we just have to relearn old habits and drop our expectations... I KNOW this stove should heat this house, at least the 740 sq ft we are most interested in ( and help the adjoining bedroom reduce it's dependency on the suppl heat), it's just a matter of trying to figure it out.

We pack the wood in at night after a couple of hours of a good size burn (about medium burn size) and it does take some management to keep the fire at that level (which we are not used to, so again I suspect the wood quality?).. IF we turn the air control down to 'low' burn, we still have good coals at 5 am, BUT the stove is cooled considerably, in other words, had it been about 5 degrees outside, this house would have been cold, as it was ....we were at about 60 degrees with at outside temp fo 26....makes us nervous.
IF we leave it at a medium burn air control, someone has to get up about 3 am and reload, or there is very little heat , with few coals, by 5 am...the stone may be a bit warm, but you could leave your hand on it for as long as you wish...it's that cooled off.

I know years ago when we had the Vermont, we could run into town for 4-5 hours, come back and the house was still 'toasty' warm with tons of coals in the stove to start a roaring fire up again...We have not yet, with this stove, been able to do this...2-3 hours and the stove has burned all the wood and cooled down enough the house feels 'cool' (not cold, but not what we would expect)

What is this about the 'doghouse'? hand book says 'not to put wood in so the doghouse is covered'....well, it's located ON THE BOTTOM of the lip, just a couple of inches off the floor of the stove at the center of the front door, so by the time you have burned the stove for a day, the coals AND any wood loaded covers the thing up...you'd have to rake out coals 3 -4 times a day if they are serious about keeping this thing 'uncovered'....our dealer says 'not to worry about it, as it only provides about 5% of the air to the stove and it's impossible NOT to cover it up with 24/7 usage'......
but it does seem like we sometimes don't get enough 'air' to keep the fire hot without keeping the air contol open alot....

what about that 'outside air supply' option? anyone ever had to try it? is it suggested for a 'tight new house' as has been mentioned to us by others?

Gosh, we want this to work, it makes sense it should, we just aren't too bright anymore! so have to ask lots of questions....
thanks for all the ideas....thermometer first, better wood next, procedure to follow.....give it some time....will report again! wish us luck! thank you!

 

[Highbeam]

A few points, not trying to be short.

I try and stuff my stove full for an overnight burn and I can get 8 hours of sleep and be able to restart the fire off of the coals. The stove at this point is very cool and not making heat but enough coals to relight. Your burntimes are the same as mine.

The doghouse has a hole in it towards the fire. Just make sure that the hole can blow onto the and under the wood load. I often knock the ash and junk out of the way to keep the hole open. It is not that much of a burden and it appears to make a big difference.

I have outside air hooked up to my heritage beacuse it was required for a permit and I like it. If you think that your stove's burn would benefit from the outside air maybe becuase your house it too well sealed then you can test the theory by opening a window to the home and noting a change in performance.

So you have 6'8" of connector pipe inside the home. How much chimney is in the attic and then how much sticks above the roof. Looking for a total length from stove to cap since this measurement majorly affects the stove's operation.

You'll get there. Dry wood makes a huge difference. I've rejected some wood, saved it for next year, because it was too wet even though it was much drier than what a typical wood salesman would call dry.

 

[ancientoaks]

we have the 6' 8", then three feet in the attic, then 6' above the roof, for a total of about 15'8" which is over the 13' the stove man. said was minimum...really think the outside air might help as well, since opening a window DOES help a bit...thanks for insight, and that we cannot expect it to 'hold' the fire and still be HEATING after 8 hours...just holding the fire is about all we can expect so as to start it up again..it's what we were starting to realize....
thanks all

 

[swestall]

IF you can't find a thermometer locally, check Amazon,there are a few on there.

 

[DriftWood]

PROBLEM
when it goes below 25 degreea out, we cannot get this 740 sq ft room above 63 degrees (so are scared to death to think about 5 degrees!),

To really get a stone stove going it is going to take some learning. This video will set you straight on the handling of a secondary burn tube stove.

This video helps kick the heat out.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1

 

[bcnu]

First year with the Homestead and with a wood stove. We are heating about 700 sq ft and have 8' ceilings. With four months experience, I can now look back at the first couple of months and see how much I've learned. The thermometer was what helped the most as I was under-firing in the beginning. The DRY seasoned oak was the next thing that helped as I started out in Oct with poorer quality stuff. Now, I can get, and keep, the space up to 75 when it's in the low 30's out.

 

[ancientoaks]

all the experiences are really helpful.....
but what is you all's experience when the outside temps are 5-10 degrees? how are you handling this? do you have suppl. heat? if not, what's it like in the am when the stove has burned down....?
thanks!

 

[AndyD1480]

ok, I'm still learning but let me toss in my two cents...

Couple of things I've learned:

1. Get a stove top thermometer: Then you can really play around with it. Try burning different sized woods, try burning wide open longer, or shorter, play around with it and see what seemed to get it up faster and using less wood.

2. Burn above 400 degrees: I can burn small stuff all day and keep the stove at 300 and it basically wont do much at all to heat the house. Get it up to 400+ and itll churn out lots and lots of heat! You can even get it up to 500 and you'll really start to feel it.

3. Reload Based on the Thermometer: I've noticed that sometimes you see coals and want to throw more wood in, but then realize the stovetop is still 450 degrees and will stay that way for another hour...wait till it comes down in temp, then reload. It'll give you a much more even heat throughout and save lots of wood.


**As far as outside temps down to 5-10, I've noticed when it gets that cold, the stove actually performs a little better. Better draft, but you do have to run it really hot to keep up.

 

[Highbeam]

I honestly expect a home heated by wood to be cooled off in the morning. Even the biggest non-cats have a productive heating time that is less than overnight. So yes, I have backup heat to keep the house from getting too cold. My electric wall heaters come on at about 62 degrees in the home and about 65 in my young daughters' bedrooms.

My living room went from 76 last night to 65 this morning with about an ideal stove stuffing in the heritage. I was able to relight from coals.

Good input Andy! I also consider room temp when reloading. If I see that the room has begun cooling then I will begin firing the stove harder in anticipation of a need for heat. The lag time must be considered.

 

[gyrfalcon]

all the experiences are really helpful.....
but what is you all's experience when the outside temps are 5-10 degrees? how are you handling this? do you have suppl. heat? if not, what's it like in the am when the stove has burned down....?
thanks!

My stove is a Hearthstone Tribute, smaller than yours, and I've been struggling with the learning curve, too, helped by lots of good advice from the folks on this forum. I've also got less than perfectly seasoned wood-- mixed hardwood, with some of it dry enough to burn well and a lot of it short of that.

One thing I've learned from experience is to buy my wood green from now on and get it stacked outside in the sun to season so I know for sure when it's ready!

Despite my problems, my small stove running 400 max, was able to keep my big front room, about the same size as yours, at 67 all day with no help from the oil heat during a stretch of -10 degree outside temps. My house is 150+ years old and obviously not air-tight, but well enough insulated that it holds heat pretty well.

I keep my central heat thermostat set at 60 and I'm sure it comes on during the night when the stove runs down and it's very cold out (like many Vermont homes, mine has no heat at all on 2nd floor), so I do at least have that floor under the house temperature. I also have a second heating zone for a couple of small rooms on the far side of the house from the stove, and the central boiler takes the main responsibility for those.

This is my first season using a woodstove, and although I'm not getting as much out of it as I will be able to with better wood and more experience, I'm using only about a third as much oil as I did last year, so saving a lot of money right off the bat.

Highbeam is right, keeping the doghouse clear is just a matter of poking stuff away from the opening once in a while. It also helps not to put a big piece of wood toward the front laterally so the doghouse is blocked by the wood itself until you've got a really good fire going. I find it helps to put a few small thin pieces, like large kindling, on the floor of the firebox going the other way ("north/south" rather than "east/west") and the splits/logs on top of that so the air and heat can get under them for long enough to get them burning really well.

I've found that I can't stuff the firebox full of this wood until toward the end of the day when there's a really roaring coal bed to ignite it more easily. Until then, I have to do some criss-crossing so there's some space between pieces, like a modified campfire or fireplace fire. That means more frequent tending and adding pieces, but it's the only way I can get it working at all. Even so, by morning the stove is barely warm to the touch and I have to start again basically from scratch. It helps a lot to have your newspaper and kindling set out the night before and ready to go right away.

Better wood will make a big difference. I "borrowed" a couple days' supply of nice dry wood from some neighbors just to see what the difference was, and it was much easier and quicker getting to 400 and actually up to 450, the highest I've been able to get so far with my still very imperfect feel for the stove. You may find, as I did, that when you've got good wood that some of your learning curve will have to start over again, though, because what works with less good wood doesn't get the most out of the stove when you have good stuff to burn.

Good luck, and don't lose heart. It's frustrating and takes a while, but keep trying different things and you'll get there eventually.

 

[buckeye]

Once you get the fire roaring good. As you turn down the air, the temp. continues to rise. The secondary combustion seems to really boost the stove temp.

 

[swestall]

I'm curious to know how this is going?

 

[Suzanne]

We have had a Hearthstone Homestead for about two months. It sits in front of an old zero clearance fireplace, vents out the back (for 22 inches)and turns a 90 to go up the chimney. Chimney has been relined with 6 inch pipe by a reputable stove installer. We have a magnetic thermometer that we set on the pipe coming out the back (about 5 inches from stove connection) and sometimes move to the top of the stove to check the temperature there. Which temperature is more important to control to. We usually adjust the stove to try and maintain a pipe temperature of 400 - 450 degrees. When the pipe is running at this temp the top is only around 300 - 350.

 

[swestall]

Are you closing the damper down all the way to engage the secondary burn? Stack temp and top temp relationship should be reversed, top hotter; but the soapstone will take a long time to warm up to its operating temp. You should have between 400-500 (550 or so when it is really cold) on the stone just above the outlet to the pipe. Could take 1.5-2.5 hours of high burn operation to get up there; then it will be heating well. You would do well to monitor both temps as thermometers are cheap and both numbers are important.