Hearthstone Homestead - Suggestions for poor draft?

[REF1]

Well, I shared my frustrations with the actual unit when the first one was purchased. A replacement was given by the dealer. Cranked it up for the first time Friday. It's Sunday morning and I am really frustrated with the stove's drafting.

16' or greater 8" masonry chimney, which goes up 36" as 6" pipe from the stove top to a 90 degree elbow into the chimney. The lateral runs around 2' total of pipe then clay flue, then straight up.

I'm using bone dry wood for this first weekend of fires. Had a rack of seasoned wood sitting inside on the hearth for a few months just a few feet from electric baseboard heat. Not even a hint of sizzle. It's dry wood.

Basically, I have to start all fires with the door open. I have to induce new fires on a bed a glowing coals with the door open. Otherwise wood smolders for a very long time. Even when the fire is roaring if I shut the door the flames are 'smothered' and I'm back to a slow burn. I have to keep the door cracked for a long time to get the load where it will really burn well and throughly. This is nonsense.

Wood burns very unevenly. Basically the middle of a load is burned with sides left in unburned chunks of large coal.

I've had some very hot fires going (550-600 stovetop temp), and the secondary burns are easy to see. But by the time I get loads to those temps, I'm going through wood like water.

Because the stove is shallow of depth, I've had face fulls of smoke upon opening the door, ever so carefully, just about every time I do so to reload. Smoke curls at a baffle at the door where the exit is located, but it just dumps into the room as soon as the door is opened fully to load. Any disturbance of coals to rake them to the front results in smoke in my face. I'm really sick of that, and so is my wife, to be sure.

I've owned several stoves and never dealt with smoke issues like this before. Nor have I ever had difficulties throwing wood on hot coals and not had them burst into flames as soon as the door was shut and a draft shot in air.

Right now I have two splits and a round sitting on a bed of coals and the fire is just burning underneath where the draft is sending in air. If I crack the door the whole load will burst into flames. Close the door in a few minutes, back to the burn underneath. It's a clear sky, 28 degrees out, btw.

Because the stove is shallow depth (which I needed for this heath), rounds cannot be placed on top of loads because they eventually roll off and sit against the door. I noticed the Fireviews have andirons to prevent this from happening. As yet, I still have not been able to create a fire hot enough, for long enough to burn the blackened glass at the corners of the door.

Any suggestions? I am wondering if the 8" chimney is too big for this 6" rated stove and a strong enough draft is being hampered. Do I have to install a 6" steel flue liner? More money on top of the 3 grand for the stove.

The stove has been burning at 200 degrees for a half hour now and just will not crank up unless I crack the door open. I am either not getting appreciable heat, or just sending heat up the flue trying to get a decent consistent fire going.

 

[Todd]

A few things to check. Does your horizontal pipe run have a rise to it as it enters your chimney? Do you have a chimney cap? If so take it off and see if it helps. Look under the stove where the air slide is and open full to see if it hits a bolt, my old Homestead didn't open all the way and I had to grind down a bolt that was obstructing it. Lastly, it's a smaller stove and would be better off exhausting into a 6" chimney than an 8".

 

[DAKSY]

I suggest you get in contact with a local hearth shop or chimney sweep
with the correct tools to check the draft of your current set up.
Sounds to me like your system design is marginal at best.
A 6" liner/tee system may be the only answer, but you
need someone to perform the draft test first.

 

[REF1]

No real pitch rise on the horizontal pipe. Stays level for around 2'.

The cap is a perforated/basket kind with plenty of smoke exiting room before the cap. I can remove it and see, but that leaves the chimney open to downpours, etc.

The slide works fine. I even stuck a hair dryer at that point and noticed a better flow of air into the box. This bottom draft is not a good design for such a shallow stove. For a deeper cigar burning shaped stove, yes, but this shape is not profiting from this draft. A stick can easily, and does fall in front of it and blocks air to the rest of the load (as has happened again on the current fire). I think this stove would have been better with a top down draft, which would have pushed smoke back, as well.

Guess I need to shop around for a 6" liner now.

 

[REF1]

I had a sweep check the chimney and clean it, but didn't a have a draft test done.

 

[burnham]

This won't help, but my Mansfield runs pretty much the same way, better but similar. I have to leave the door cracked for at least 15-20 minutes when starting a fire, and the first load is wasted just getting the stove up to operating temp. I know my chimney is about 2-3' too short, but I haven't been able to match up brands of class A pipe to extend it. My air wash also doesn't work very well, if I clean the glass and burn it hot the glass will stay clean for a long time, but if a split is burning too close to the glass it will get dirty and stay that way until I clean it. I'd say you're looking at running a 6" pipe up your chimney, these are fussy stoves.

 

[NH_Wood]

Is your chimney on the exterior of the house? If so, you might have too cold a chimney during your initial burns, resulting in too slow a draft, and what appears to be some tendency for a back draft if you are spilling smoke easily. If you have sometimes achieved the high burn temps you mentioned in your first message, and then are burning through a lot of wood, it seems that you are finally warming the chimney sufficiently and then have a very strong draft. When you've achieved these high temps and low burn times, are you leaving the air wide open, or have you begun to shut the intake down?

 

[LLigetfa]

Guess I need to shop around for a 6" liner now.

Make that an insulated liner. It also sounds like you may have a pressure deficit situation in the home that needs to be addressed. Even an 8 inch masonry flue should be able to draw once you get it hot enough.

As for wood rolling against the glass, why are you not splitting it so that it isn't round? Wedge shapes don't roll and burn better than round. Despite your insisting the wood is dry, my take is it could be better. Really dry wood would burst into flame the moment it is set onto a bed of hot coals. Wood doesn't have to hiss and foam to be less than ideal.

 

[Todd]

No real pitch rise on the horizontal pipe. Stays level for around 2'.

The cap is a perforated/basket kind with plenty of smoke exiting room before the cap. I can remove it and see, but that leaves the chimney open to downpours, etc.

The slide works fine. I even stuck a hair dryer at that point and noticed a better flow of air into the box. This bottom draft is not a good design for such a shallow stove. For a deeper cigar burning shaped stove, yes, but this shape is not profiting from this draft. A stick can easily, and does fall in front of it and blocks air to the rest of the load (as has happened again on the current fire). I think this stove would have been better with a top down draft, which would have pushed smoke back, as well.

Guess I need to shop around for a 6" liner now.

Modify that horizontal run with a slight rise, manual recomends 1/4" per foot. Chimney caps restrict draft and can clog up, if your burning pretty much 24/7 no need for cap, you can replace cap at end of burning season to keep critters out.

I've heard of a few people messing with those doghouse zipper air holes in the middle lower front of the fire box, cutting off the air or plugging the hole can produce more down draft/airwash and better burns. Maybe experiment by sticking a bolt in that hole?

6" liner will help, I exhausted my Homestead into a 6x10 at first and had sluggish draft and colaing problems and after installing 5.5 liner the stove drafted like a Hoover.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Guess I need to shop around for a 6" liner now.

Make that an insulated liner. It also sounds like you may have a pressure deficit situation in the home that needs to be addressed. Even an 8 inch masonry flue should be able to draw once you get it hot enough.

As for wood rolling against the glass, why are you not splitting it so that it isn't round? Wedge shapes don't roll and burn better than round. Despite your insisting the wood is dry, my take is it could be better. Really dry wood would burst into flame the moment it is set onto a bed of hot coals. Wood doesn't have to hiss and foam to be less than ideal.

I agree.

No doubt an insulated liner would help but I would first seriously question the fuel.

 

[LLigetfa]

I've heard of a few people messing with those doghouse zipper air holes in the middle lower front of the fire box, cutting off the air or plugging the hole can produce more down draft/airwash and better burns.

The zipper air is one of those love/hate things. When there is excessive draft, you will hate it as it turbocharges the fire making it harder to control. When there is not enough draft, it is the only thing keeping the fire going. It sounds very much that the zipper is keeping the fire going and burning a tunnel in the middle of the wood. That also sounds like less than ideal wood.

Problem though is that the zipper air won't keep the stove "in the zone". The zone can be hard to hit. Too much air, be it zipper or primary (air wash) or secondary will make you go through way too much wood sending the heat (and unburnt gasses) up the flue and not acheiving good secondary combustion. WRT air, sometimes less is more. Once you get the draft problem solved, you can experiment with the zipper and primary/secondary air supply to get it in the zone.

 

[REF1]

Well, there WAS a 5" or 5.5" steel flue in the chimney which went with my mom's gas stove which was taken out. I have access to that I can put it back in if that will work.

The chimney is interior. The wood is dry. Very dry.

Not sure what a "zipper" is. Guess I'll have to check into that. I didn't poke a mirror down there, but it feels like a series of holes. And that is exactly what it does - it burns a tunnel through the load.

As far as rounds, I have no desire to split a four inch round. Some are smaller than that in this wood I purchased. But even wedges will fall against the door glass. Just depends on how the load disintegrates through the burn.

 

[dave11]

I had the same problem when I first started burning, but in a different stove. Many of these same possibilities were raised then.

As far as the draft goes, you can buy a draft meter, Bacharach makes a couple, and there are still others. They're in the $100-$200 range for a decent one. They're easy to use. Then you'll know for sure if your draft is the problem or not.

As for the wood, once you've got a decent set of coals, throw a dry 2X4, preferably one that's been sitting in a dry basement or garage, onto the fire. If it burns like you want it to, then the problem is your wood. I know you believe your wood has to be dry enough already, but I've been taking careful readings on my wood, and I can tell the difference in wood that's 17% vs. 20%. The latter still doesn't burn very well. These stoves are very picky.

 

[LLigetfa]

I very much doubt a liner from a gas stove would be suitable. If you don't want to split a 4 inch round, that's your prerogative but then don't complain that it rolls. Maybe wood heat is not for you. Have you considered a pellet stove?

 

[Shari]

A liner from a gas appliance is not sufficient for a wood stove.

Shari

 

[WidowMaker]

I've heard of a few people messing with those doghouse zipper air holes in the middle lower front of the fire box, cutting off the air or plugging the hole can produce more down draft/airwash and better burns.

The zipper air is one of those love/hate things. When there is excessive draft, you will hate it as it turbocharges the fire making it harder to control. When there is not enough draft, it is the only thing keeping the fire going. It sounds very much that the zipper is keeping the fire going and burning a tunnel in the middle of the wood. That also sounds like less than ideal wood.

Problem though is that the zipper air won't keep the stove "in the zone". The zone can be hard to hit. Too much air, be it zipper or primary (air wash) or secondary will make you go through way too much wood sending the heat (and unburnt gasses) up the flue and not acheiving good secondary combustion. WRT air, sometimes less is more. Once you get the draft problem solved, you can experiment with the zipper and primary/secondary air supply to get it in the zone.

Not to steal a thread,but, what is zipper air???

 

[REF1]

LLigetfa, As I stated, a wedge falls into the door as easily as a round. Just depends on how the load disintegrates. I've burned wood for almost 20 years in five different stoves. This is my sixth. I'm not a novice.

Shari, Thanks for the nix on the former liner. I'll look into something else.

 

[REF1]

And, as I also stated, when I crack the door the whole load bursts into flames. It's not the wood.

 

[REF1]

I read somewhere else that Hearthstones like a full load and to be burnt wide open. I am finding that to be very true. When I just basically leave it alone a good fire will eventually build up, but lots of waste is going up the chimney for sure. I'm going through wood pretty quick. When it's cranking it heats the house well, and anything larger might just heat us out.

After a week with this unit, I am really missing a cat stove and wish I went with Woodstock, especially with that side door for loading.

I don't like this Homestead draft, it does just burn a tunnel through the load, and the firebox has a shape which basically allows four pieces of wood in it. So, for the most part, unless I crack the door, not much air is getting to the whole load until the tunnel allows air to the logs in the back.

My wife liked the enamel finish. It is nice. But when it comes down to it, you have a heating appliance on your hands and I'd rather have efficiency and function than looks. Too late now. Should have went with my gut feeling on this one and taken a cat stove. I just like the way they function and perform.

 

[thinkxingu]

REF1, my air is almost shut down with every load, and I'm reaching 500-550* stove top easily. And, even though we can only fit 2-3 large splits and some extras, that will last 8 hours starting at 550, cruising at 450 and ending around 200.

What we do: open air all the way, rake EVERYTHING to the front, load wood all towards back and fill up box every time. Keep air full open for about 15 minutes, until the fire's going ka-razy!, then close 1/3 of the way. Wait 5 minutes, close to 2/3 and let cruise. 4 hours at 450-500. If we want overnight, close all the way and pull forward about an inch in the last step.

If you need to keep the door open or air mostly open, you don't have a great set of coals, or your draft's or wood's not good.

S

 

[REF1]

Well, I've had really great sets of coals. Temps get up, I shut down halfway, but no 8 hour fires, that's for sure. I've had stoves where you can just throw in logs to keep things going well, but they were cats. This stove wants a full load to burn efficiently.

That said, I need to address the flue. I'm going to remove the mantel and create a 45 degree for the pipe and see if that helps the draft. I also need to go into the crawl space and see what the clean out door is like. Want to make sure cold air is not getting in.

Thus far though, this draft is great at burning tunnels through a load. This morning I have six inch chunks of coal in the stove, left and right. I have seen this draft look like acetylene torches, literally charging a path through the wood with three jets of flame. But that is the main action.

The smoke issue is interesting. I thought the entire top of the stove was an exit for smoke. Not so, Just a couple exits left and right. If the smoke finds it easier to exit into the room rather than up the flue I obviously have a draft problem.

 

[Todd]

That clean out door could be the culprit. If it's leaking it can effect the draft just like sucking through a straw with a hole in it. Bring some duct tape with you and seal it up.

 

[thinkxingu]

8-hour fires??? No, we don't get 8-hour fires, but after 8 hours (with a full box) we have a stove-top temp of 200 and can re-light easily. This morning, I got up and stove top was 150 after 9 hours--that was using, literally, a full box of oak.

S

 

[REF1]

Well, after a month of using this device I am pretty fed up. I am convinced any stove that needs the door cracked to work is a poorly designed stove. This is something I have never encountered before. Previous stoves all had great draft systems. Well, I take that back. The monster Hearthstone I had sometimes benefited from a cracked door to ignite a fire.

I am so tired of a face full of smoke from this stove's design I'm about to throw it out the door. It will be sold when heating season is done.

By the way, I took down the mantel and cut it up for firewood. Now, if anyone wants to suggest a 30 year old 4x8 beam is not dry enough to burn ....

Kindling (scraps of pine boards), small splits and rounds, large dry splits, doesn't matter. The only way to get a fire up to speed is either by leaving the door cracked, which is ridiculous, or by placing a hair dryer under the draft opening. Man, I can get a fire cranked like that, but as soon as I turn off the dryer, the fire just fizzles to that inefficient three hole air supply port in front. Any wood against it, coals, ashes, forget it, the stove will sit and smoke away until a large enough area of the "tunnel burn" reaches other fuel.

I installed an outside air supply. Placed the flue pipe at 45 degrees (and the clay flue IS pitched at a 1/4" per foot). The only thing left to do is install a 6" flue liner and extend it a couple feet higher, but I doubt that is the problem because once I finally do get a decent fire going chimney draft is obviously not a problem. I had the stove at 600 last night. First time, and I shut down the draft some right away so as not to over burn, but to get the stove to those temps requires constant watching and messing with it. I have no time for such a circus.

I am tired of large chunks of unburned wood left and right, and huge piles of coals which are not glowing but just sitting there, and that is with the draft open all the way through a burn cycle. The air intake on this stove is a poor design. There is no other conclusion I can make. The angle of the top of the fire box just naturally sends smoke right into the room. And if, when loading the stove, I am not fast about it, the first stick begins to start catching before I can load the others and smoke just glides up the firebox roof and right out the door into my face. This, mind you, after a full load has created plenty of heat for the chimney and draft is established.

When I moved to Maine and got hit with an unexpected early winter and the only wood I could get was a few cords of wood with ice all over it. I spent as much time chopping ice off wood as I did building the house. I burned wood with ICE on it in an Elmira and the thing vaporized each load. My Elms were extremely easy to use and very efficient. This Homestead ... just not the gig I am looking for. If all EPA stoves are this finicky, I'll go cat next year. Or look for a stove with a very different draft system and firebox design.

 

[Todd]

Placed the flue pipe at 45 degrees (and the clay flue IS pitched at a 1/4" per foot). The only thing left to do is install a 6" flue liner and extend it a couple feet higher, but I doubt that is the problem because once I finally do get a decent fire going chimney draft is obviously not a problem.

I bet that is your problem. What is the inside diameter size of your chimney? Is it an exterior chimney? I had the same stove that dumped into a 6x11 clay tile chimney and had the same problem with smoke during reload and keeping stove hot. After relining the chimney stove performance improved greatly and I rarely had smoke issues. I still found I needed to crack a nearby window to get a cold start going but I could live with that. 99% of the time it's the chimney not the stove.