Hearthstone I

[vtburner]

hello all,

been lurking around here for some time now as I have been shopping to replace the old "logwood" cast iron deathtrap/wood disposal unit that came with my house. I have been mostly trying to decide which kind of new epa stove i wanted to get (cat/tubes/afterburner, etc), and have found this site to be incredibly helpful in researching the different stoves. In fact, i found myself at a dealer a couple weeks ago actually educating a less-than-knowledgable salesperson about the pros and cons of the Harman TL300's afterburn system before realizing that i would probably do best just to shut up and look the stove over by myself, which is what i went in to do in the first place. Kudos to all on this forum for that...

but anyway, while I have been shopping around for a new stove, I have also been keeping my eye on craigslist for deals and have come across a very nice looking "Hearthstone I" for sale nearby and have to say, despite my intense desire to own a wonderfull new epa stove, am now tempted.

This stove is non-epa of course, built sometime in the late 80's, and has no reburn of any kind, but seems to be nice and tight and in great condition. It is also massive and heavy (over 800 lbs) which i think is awesome. The owner claims he can shut it down and run a good fire overnight no problem, with hot soapstone still doin its job in the morning and coals to start a new fire. That has really been my main criteria all along, so in theory, this stove would work for me. (I am not as concerned with pollution/creosote as I am with long burn times and efficiently getting heat into the house).

So, my questions are: does anyone have any experience running a stove like this and/or can share their impressions of it? Is there anything inherently wrong with a big non-epa stove such as this? Is there any issues known with this model? The guy is asking $795 for it, good price?

Another thing, which i guess would be more opinions than anything, is that I absolutely love soapstone, both for the look and for the heating properties, but new soapstone is absolutely out of the question for me price-wise. If I were to go new instead of this older soapstone giant, I would have to buy a steel stove, and have been strongly considering the Englander-30 and the Drolet T2000 as the bargains which i can afford right now. I may also keep the logwood for now and save up till spring, at which time I could afford one of the more expensive brands of steel stoves or possibly even a cast iron like the jotul f600. Is there any contest between these two (three) options for me, or is it a hands down definite to go new/nice new?

 

[AlexNY]

I recently replaced an older Jotul stove that I had used for years with a Hearthstone "heritage" stove that has the soapstone finish that you desire.

Despite all the attention paid to EPA stoves, my experience over the past few weeks as I familiarize my self with the new "heritage" is that the difference is NOT that it burns cleaner (as I had assumed) but rather that you can burn clean & slow. What do I mean? My old wood stove and my new wood stove both have exactly the same amount of emissions when operated properly: ZERO. In both cases, when the stove is running correctly the stack is clear, and when I stand on my roof right next to the stack there is absolutely no smell of smoke.

The difference is, with my old Jotul, "operated properly" meant running it FAST & HOT. The new heritage allows me to run LONG & WARM and still keep emissions low, by turning the air control down to the minimum. The fire simply moves away from the wood, and up to the top of the stove. There is no smoke. Note that this only works with very very dry wood. If you are used to using an older stove, you will probably find that your previous criteria for what constitutes "adequate" dryness will be totally inadequate for new, EPA stoves. In fact, you can burn awful 6 month seasoned wet wood in a "heritage", but only if you (a) start the fire with 18+ month wood, (b) leave air control at max at all times, (c) re-load frequently with less wood, and (d) leave the loading door open for ~30 min+ after re-loading.

I never run long and warm, and so I basically wasted my money (although my wife loves the reduced mess and aesthetic qualities of the stove, which made the whole thing worth it in the end).

However, if you like long burns, you will love the "heritage". With the air control at minimum (and burning 18 month seasoned wood), it will burn 6-8 hours on a full load of hardwood and still have sufficient hot coals in the morning to re-light easily. I do not use this ability, because I naturally wake up frequently during the night (my wife tells me that I have been heating with firewood for so long that the firewood re-loading cycle has simply become a part of who I am)

EPA stoves burn cleaner? No! Any decent wood stove produces no emissions when used right.
EPA stoves burn clean even when air starved and "warm" rather than "hot"? Yes! So, basically, the whole deal behind EPA stoves is, you get to sleep through the night.

Good luck. The "heritage" is really lovely, if you care for such things. If you are married, your wife will also probably appreciate the reduces amount of mess. There is still lots of corn-flake sized mess close to the wood stove, everything from flakes of bark to ash that falls out of the wood stove when you open the door. However, the very fine airborne ash that would coat everything in the room after a few days of using my Jotul is completely gone. That is quite nice.

 

[edthedawg]

Run far and fast from any old Hearthstone I or II. Not worth the trouble.

Find a used Mansfield or Heritage.

 

[tickbitty]

I think that $795 is too much to ask for a Hearthstone I, even if it's really nice. I bought a hearthstone II for $150, found I couldn't use it, and sold it several months later for $450. I think those old hearthstones sell all day long for $200-$600 from what I could see. They are nice looking though! (Except where the glass is, where they will be all creosoted up!) So I would just say that guy's asking at the high end for what you would really be getting in terms of a stove.

 

[vtburner]

Run far and fast from any old Hearthstone I or II. Not worth the trouble.

Find a used Mansfield or Heritage.

What kind of trouble we talking here... like pain in the a$$ trouble or like burn the house down trouble?

Also, from what ive seen, finding a used mansfield or heritage would be near impossible... i mean, why would anyone want to get rid of one of those beauties? PS: I would already have a mansfield if i had the money, or an equinox if i had even more money. I love soapstone but this old thing looks like the only way i could get it.

 

[tickbitty]

I think there are a lot of people who love their old hearthstones, but they are not the vocal majority here. I still think that's a lot to ask for a very old hearthstone though. You could get a really nice Hearthstone II for half as much if you like them, and it's just as pretty!
But...
How close are you to middlesex?
(broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/for/1433457937.html)
I agree they don't come up that often, and they are not all that cheap either. This one's asking $1600 but it's still way cheaper than the new ones!
Or this woodstock: (broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/for/1423860597.html)
And here's a nice Jotul - not a soapstone, but nice just the same...
(broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/for/1450379917.html)

Sorry, getting reaaaaallllly carried away on Craigslist as usual.

 

[vtburner]

I think there are a lot of people who love their old hearthstones, but they are not the vocal majority here. I still think that's a lot to ask for a very old hearthstone though. You could get a really nice Hearthstone II for half as much if you like them, and it's just as pretty!
But...
How close are you to middlesex?
(broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/for/1433457937.html)
I agree they don't come up that often, and they are not all that cheap either. This one's asking $1600 but it's still way cheaper than the new ones!
Or this woodstock: (broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/for/1423860597.html)
And here's a nice Jotul - not a soapstone, but nice just the same...
(broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/for/1450379917.html)

Sorry, getting reaaaaallllly carried away on Craigslist as usual.

I agree, all nice stoves. BUT, unfortunately all are also too small for what I'm looking for. Im looking in at least the 3 cu. ft. range to heat over 2000 sq ft. I have been keeping a close eye on craigslist and most of the stoves that seem to come up are older cast irons that are "rebuilt", a LOT of VC small stoves (encore, resolute, etc) and a mix of other small stoves. I saw a Consolidated Dutchwest extra large Cat stove on there a few days ago though that I almost called on before deciding against taking a risk on an old cat stove (after researching it here ;-) ).


BTW - THANKS for the info on pricing.... gives me a good idea on what to haggle for if it comes to that.

 

[edthedawg]

An old H1 is gonna be an 800 lb monster of inefficiently EPIC proportions. highly impractical for a heater by today's standards. If you like going thru 10 or 12 cord/year, you could consider it. i never would.

You do make a very astute observation tho on the lack of used modern stone stoves coming up on the market - they are popular enough to be kept and used and run for decades

 

[vtburner]

Yeah I Figured it might not be so efficient... Aside from safety, that is the main problem I have with the Logwood thats in my house now. I have burned through OVER a cord of wood already with it and I havent even started burning 24/7 yet. I will bring a BIG wheelbarow load of wood in when I get home from work, build a fire and load it up, then load it up again 2 hrs later, then again before bed and use the whole wheelbarow full, only to wake up in the AM with just warm coals and a cold house.

I was thinking the Hearthstone 1 might hold a fire better being tighter and with more thermal mass, and i figured the soapstone would hold/disperse the heat more efficiently into the house than the logwood, which doesnt even have a baffle. Guess maybe not?

I definitely am not interested in a stove that isnt efficient at transferring the heat it produces into the living space. My Logwood I am pretty sure routinely changes the weather patterns around my house with its upward jet of hot air out my chimney.....

 

[edthedawg]

well a properly configured inefficient stove sound better than your likely broken Logwood. If you could get the H1 for half the current asking price, plus bring along a team of linebackers to help move it, AND you don't mind still using that much wood, you'd be fine.

sounds like a lotta work to me. i haven't gone thru even close to 1/4 of a cord yet, and it was 73 in my house this morning, freezing outside. oil/steam hasn't been turned on.

i'd work out the cost/benefit analysis if i was you. You need to do SOMETHING fast - you can't keep burning the way you are - what's the point?? If you can't make/buy a baffle board, then upgrading to a used stove is a good idea. But you can bank on needing to spend more $$ getting it fixed up w/ new seals, maybe a cat (if it's supposed to have one), etc. Getting a new stove is a great idea - one that will serve you well for many years. If you can amortize that cost out over 10-15 years, it might get fairly attractive...

 

[tickbitty]

So you need a big one! One more CL find then, this monster will heat your 2000 ft with no problem - Avalon Olympic for $600. Supposed to be very good efficient stoves and I think that's their biggest model.
(broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/hsh/1414914754.html)

 

[firefighterjake]

I personally like the soapstone stoves . . . I find them beautiful . . . even the older ones. However, the new EPA stoves give you more heat with less wood and they burn clean. For me personally, time is important and while I love working on firewood, the fact is I enjoy spending quality time with my wife even more . . . and somtimes that "quality time" is doing other chores around the house and so being able to get more heat out of less wood is important to me.

The owner says he could get an overnight burn . . . I believe him . . . with the old smoke dragons that was usually pretty easy . . . you got the fire going and then close off all the air and let the fire smolder all night long . . . you would get an all night burn, but you also tended to produce a heckuva lot of creosote and you didn't really get a lot of heat out of that burn.

The price . . . seems a bit pricey for older tech . . . bu then again a lot of folks these days seem to be living in a dream world where they think the stove they bought for $1,000 or so ten or fifteen years ago is still worth almost that same amount . . . even when the gaskets are gone, it is rusting or needs to be rebuilt.

My opinion . . . if you're dead set on getting a woodstove this year, go with the cheaper alternative and go new with a nice steel EPA stove like the Englander. Personally, I like the look of most steel stoves . . . although I like the look of the cast iron and soapstone even more. I think you would be happier with a stove that you know has never been abused and would be happier knowing that you would be burning less wood and spending more time doing stuff you enjoy doing.

That said . . . I am also a believer in buying what you want once if you can swing it . . . buy what you like and what you think looks good . . . and more importantly what will work good. What I'm trying to say is that I would rather have a stove that is safe and keeping me warm without consuming massive amounts of fuel vs. a a stove that looks fantastic, but not functional, unsafe or using huge amounts of wood in the process (and I am not saying that the stove you refer to is not functional or unsafe or consumes massive amounts of wood . . . I'm just trying to make a point.) Instead, figure out what you need for the size stove and what you can realistically afford . . . and then go looking . . . and find that stove that is the right size, right price and right look and get it.

That said, I also would say that when looking for a stove a person should remember that in most cases this is not going to be like a lawn mower where it will likely die in a few years and be replaced . . . this is also not like an electric can opener relegated to a cupboard or tucked away and underneath a shelf. This is a woodstove that will be located smack dab in middle of your living room and it will likely last 15, 20 or more years -- you do not want to buy a stove you do not like the looks of . . . or a stove that you do not like how it performs.

I personally have seen some great looking steel stoves . . . and there are many great cast iron stoves . . . and of course soapstone stoves. Some stoves I have looked at again and again as I like their looks or reputation for long burn . . . but when all is said and done I realize one fact . . . I am happy with the stove that I bought for one thing and one thing only . . . sure, I think it looks good . . . but that one thing that I keep coming back to time and time again is that I am happy with my purchase because of this one universal truth -- IT KEEPS ME, MY WIFE AND MY PETS WARM and when all is said and done this is the one thing I want from this stove.

 

[vtburner]

I just discovered, by intensifying my internet search and digging deeper into the forums here (found some threads from ~'05), that the H1 actually DOES have a secondary burn chamber (it is the perforated tube style air injection reburn), and that while its no mansfield, it might not be a badly designed stove after all.

Wouldnt this make the H1 significantly more efficient and better than any regular old firebox stove, like the Logwood stove I have now (which is over a 4 cu ft firebox, no baffle or sheilds of any kind, flue pipe straight out the top)?

OR, does it just not work? It seems to me like this old stove, if I can get it for a decent price and it is in good enough shape, would be a massive improvement over what I have now and would even reduce my wood useage considerably...


What am I missing? ... besides experience of course ;-)

 

[begreen]

Haven't owned one, but the scuttlebut is that this stove was not all that efficient and ate up a fair amount of wood for the heat produced as compared to the modern equivalent. If the stove was cheap, I'd say go for it. But for 795 you could pick up a new Englander 30NC for the same price after the tax credit and have a new, more efficient, big box stove.

 

[FireWalker]

Haven't owned one, but the scuttlebut is that this stove was not all that efficient and ate up a fair amount of wood for the heat produced as compared to the modern equivalent. If the stove was cheap, I'd say go for it. But for 795 you could pick up a new Englander 30NC for the same price after the tax credit and have a new, more efficient, big box stove.

Now that my friends is some good advise!

 

[tickbitty]

So you need a big one! One more CL find then, this monster will heat your 2000 ft with no problem - Avalon Olympic for $600. Supposed to be very good efficient stoves and I think that's their biggest model.
(broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/hsh/1414914754.html)

Sorry, I know this is mainly about the soapstone, but seriously, not to belabor it but this Avalon is an excellent stove! Can be an insert or on legs or pedestal. Just sayin! (If you go with the Big Hearthstone though, good luck and let us know how it goes!)
(broken link removed to http://www.warmingtrendsstoves.com/olympic_ws.html)
(broken link removed)
(broken image removed)

 

[dolphins1lrb]

Ok now I am still confused. So what would be not oly stingy on wood but also heat a 2800sqft house? I seem to burn a lot of wood. I presently have the Lopi Liberty and go thru 12 face cords a year and heat from mid November to mid April.

 

[CTburning]

My neighboor has a Hearthstone II from around 1982. It is on it's last legs as the metal frame is "gone" as she puts it. I never looked inside but she said there is a metal box and then the stone is on the outside of that. The metal box is almost completely gone. 25 years is pretty good for a stove so I would say it is reliable. $800 sounds kind of high in price. If you can get the seller down to $500 or so then I say go for it. My neighboor has a tiny little house (900 sqft)and she burns a good 2+ cords every year. She heats up the stone and then lets it smolder for a long time. You can smell/see the smoke wafting from her chimney all the time. She will have a hot fire to get some coals and then shuts it down. It works for her but not as efficiently as a newer stove would. With the tax credit I would try to get a new stove. Out of pocket a new Fireview would set you back around $1700 after the refund during tax time. That is just one example but there are many good lookings stoves out there that qualify.

 

[vtburner]

WELL, Went down on Friday night to look at it and I have to say it was a beautiful piece of equipment. MASSIVE too. It could pretty easily take 22-24" wood through the side door, or regular 16"-18" wood N-S through the front door. It had a secondary burn tube along the back of the firebox and secondary air intake on the right side, which is adjustable. The most unexpected thing which impressed me was that it was originally equipped with a bimetallic coil thermostat controlling a flap on the primary air intake, which was incredible. The guy said that if the fire would get too hot, it would close the air and prevent an overfire. Likewise, after he would shut it way down for the night, it would open up if the fire got too cool and started smouldering. Amazing, considering its age huh?

As we were there looking it over, another guy showed up to look at it. I told the owner that I'd like it and I would call in the AM after this other guy looked at it to talk money. Well, I called on SAT AM first thing, and the owner said he went ahead and sold it to the other guy, because he paid full price and paid for it on the spot.

I was a little irritated at first, but then didnt care because that other guy definitely got screwed. The stove was in great shape overall, especially the soapstone, castings, doors, etc, BUT the internals were all but done. The top baffle was warped about 6" in the middle, which made the damper useless, and the rear plate was also warped and burn out a little. After he replaces these neccesary parts, he will have over $1300-$1600 into the thing, which is just stupid, no matter how impressive it was.

My Max offer was going to be $500, considering the top baffle ($300) NEEDED to be replaced immediately for proper use, and the other 2 plates (over $500 together) would have to be replaced within a few years most likely.

THANKS so much all for the input throughout this process, it has been most helpful. I may have gone in there uneducated like the other guy and been enthralled enough with the unit to fork over the full $800 without question. Well, now to continue wrestling with my other options... as if I hadnt spent enough time on here already researching!


(PS: thanks for pointing out the Avalon for sale. I'd go look at it, but its 2 hrs away...)

 

[edthedawg]

Sounds like a good learning experience. Pretty doesn't always equate to good. If you want soapstone, look into the newer stoves. Try to find a Woodstock Fireview or a Hearthstone Mansfield or Heritage. A new stove will pay you dividends over the years - you already noticed that w/ the likely fixes needed on this old dragon you checked out... good luck!

 

[begreen]

Good for you. Keep your eyes open and be ready to jump on a good stove. This is peak season and a tough time to find bargains. When they show up, they go quickly. Come spring, there will be a lot more choices. Or there are some nice new stoves for not much more $$ once the credit is figured in.

 

[moosetrek]

BeGreen had a great idea - why not look at an Englader 30NC? New price is under $1000, will heat your house pretty efficiently, and is fairly attractive- plus no peices to replace. Available through Lowes, and probably some other places chk the mfr website.

 

[fredarm]

BeGreen had a great idea - why not look at an Englader 30NC? New price is under $1000, will heat your house pretty efficiently, and is fairly attractive- plus no peices to replace. Available through Lowes, and probably some other places chk the mfr website.

FYI. It's branded as an Englander at Home Depot and a Summer's Heat at Lowes. Same stove.

 

[firefighterjake]

WELL, Went down on Friday night to look at it and I have to say it was a beautiful piece of equipment. MASSIVE too. It could pretty easily take 22-24" wood through the side door, or regular 16"-18" wood N-S through the front door. It had a secondary burn tube along the back of the firebox and secondary air intake on the right side, which is adjustable. The most unexpected thing which impressed me was that it was originally equipped with a bimetallic coil thermostat controlling a flap on the primary air intake, which was incredible. The guy said that if the fire would get too hot, it would close the air and prevent an overfire. Likewise, after he would shut it way down for the night, it would open up if the fire got too cool and started smouldering. Amazing, considering its age huh?

As we were there looking it over, another guy showed up to look at it. I told the owner that I'd like it and I would call in the AM after this other guy looked at it to talk money. Well, I called on SAT AM first thing, and the owner said he went ahead and sold it to the other guy, because he paid full price and paid for it on the spot.

I was a little irritated at first, but then didnt care because that other guy definitely got screwed. The stove was in great shape overall, especially the soapstone, castings, doors, etc, BUT the internals were all but done. The top baffle was warped about 6" in the middle, which made the damper useless, and the rear plate was also warped and burn out a little. After he replaces these neccesary parts, he will have over $1300-$1600 into the thing, which is just stupid, no matter how impressive it was.

My Max offer was going to be $500, considering the top baffle ($300) NEEDED to be replaced immediately for proper use, and the other 2 plates (over $500 together) would have to be replaced within a few years most likely.

THANKS so much all for the input throughout this process, it has been most helpful. I may have gone in there uneducated like the other guy and been enthralled enough with the unit to fork over the full $800 without question. Well, now to continue wrestling with my other options... as if I hadnt spent enough time on here already researching!


(PS: thanks for pointing out the Avalon for sale. I'd go look at it, but its 2 hrs away...)

My view on life when things like this happen to me . . . if it was meant to be, it would have happened. Call it fate . . . call it karma . . . I figure if something doesn't happen the way I was hoping there might be a reason . . . like maybe you will find a better deal . . . or maybe the guy who bought the stove will realize too late that it wasn't such a good deal.

 

[tickbitty]

Sounds like you were saved some trouble in this case! When I had a HII (never burned it though) I was very enamored of the look and read up on them on here a lot. I don't think all that many (with the exception of big redd) would argue with you that they look beautiful and that makes it real tempting! But I remember reading that a few people on here kept the old Hearthsones around just to use as furniture while they burned in new efficient stoves!

But hey if you are still really set on the Hearthstones there are a couple of Hearthstone II stoves for sale on CL in VT (though I don't know how close to you) and one of them looks to be in super shape if you judge a book by it's cover. Did you feel the HII's were too small for your needs? These are found more frequently than the Is and cost a bit less. (broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/for/1438896385.html)

But better STILL (Maybe?!) is a big Hearthstone Harvest which is apparently a catalytic EPA stove. (broken link removed to http://burlington.craigslist.org/hsh/1427947984.html)
I never even heard of this model, but it looks plenty large.