Heat in the room

[2wheels]

Hi all. This is not a stove specific question but maybe you can help me.

I have a Pacific Energy Summit stove in the basement. Room is 25 ft by 40ft. I would say it burns fine, good wood, flue thermometer reads between 300 and 500 F.

Here is the question. I have had 2 furnace guys into the house, I'm replacing the oil furnace with propane.
These guys look a the finished basement room, look a my stove and both said that stove is too big for this room. It must get really hot down here.

But it does not get really hot in the room. As a matter of fact if the outside temperature is below freezing outside, I cannot get the room above 20 C (or 70 F)

We have been at this house for 3 years now and this is consistent.

I think there is something wrong here, maybe it is the cold basement floor, always 13 degrees C.
Any thoughts?

 

[kborndale]

Is the finished basement insulated? Even if it isnt you should easily be able to get above 70F with the stove cranking.

 

[2wheels]

Is the finished basement insulated? Even if it isnt you should easily be able to get above 70F with the stove cranking.

The walls are 2x4 and I believe insulated with fiberglass pink, but I'm not 100 percent sure. It is always hard to tell what's behind finished walls.

 

[Hogwildz]

Is the heated air migrating upstairs and heating as you wish? 2x4 walls even with insulation do not add much insulating value. Is the floor covered or bare concrete? Concrete is a big heat sink. I'd say if it is performing and doing as you wish, there is no issue.

 

[2wheels]

Is the heated air migrating upstairs and heating as you wish? 2x4 walls even with insulation do not add much insulating value. Is the floor covered or bare concrete? Concrete is a big heat sink. I'd say if it is performing and doing as you wish, there is no issue.

We wish the heat was going upstairs, but not very much. the floor has laminate on it but no insulation.
I have always thought the floor is just too cold and the room cannot heat up. But other people have said that even if the floor is cold the room will heat up when the stove is hot and then cool down quickly. As i said above, the room never heats up.

 

[kborndale]

If the floor is bare put down some carpet. I heat a slightly smaller finished but uninsulated basement and first floor from the basement, I do have carpet and padding on the floor and just drywall on the walls. While I am on Long Island and not in Canada, even if it in the single digits outside I can easily get it to 90F in the basement.

 

[Dabster13]

Hi all. This is not a stove specific question but maybe you can help me.

I have a Pacific Energy Summit stove in the basement. Room is 25 ft by 40ft. I would say it burns fine, good wood, flue thermometer reads between 300 and 500 F.

Here is the question. I have had 2 furnace guys into the house, I'm replacing the oil furnace with propane.
These guys look a the finished basement room, look a my stove and both said that stove is too big for this room. It must get really hot down here.

But it does not get really hot in the room. As a matter of fact if the outside temperature is below freezing outside, I cannot get the room above 20 C (or 70 F)

We have been at this house for 3 years now and this is consistent.

I think there is something wrong here, maybe it is the cold basement floor, always 13 degrees C.
Any thoughts?

Is your wood wet by chance?

I have Pacific Energy Summer Insert - which is one size smaller than the summit, and it heats the whole house (2100 sq feet) I can get it over 70 degrees in here (not that i want it that warm) on days where it's freezing.

 

[2wheels]

If the floor is bare put down some carpet. I heat a slightly smaller finished but uninsulated basement and first floor from the basement, I do have carpet and padding on the floor and just drywall on the walls. While I am on Long Island and not in Canada, even if it in the single digits outside I can easily get it to 90F in the basement.

I don't think I would put carpet on this basement floor , pretty sure mildew would be a problem in the summer. But I do wonder if that is my problem, a cold floor. There are other options for keeping the floor warm.

 

[2wheels]

Is your wood wet by chance?

I have Pacific Energy Summer Insert - which is one size smaller than the summit, and it heats the whole house (2100 sq feet) I can get it over 70 degrees in here (not that i want it that warm) on days where it's freezing.

I buy wood in the spring that has been split and sitting for at least 1 year. Then I store my wood in a south facing lean too. So no rain just sun and wind all summer long. In the fall I tarp it to keep the snow from blowing onto the wood.
I think my wood is dry. Pretty much all hard maple.
I have no problem getting the flue thermometer into the overheat zone if i am not careful.

By the way I live close to Owen Sound Ontario. So not that cold. But between 10 and 20 degrees below freezing most of Jan and February.

 

[maple1]

I buy wood in the spring that has been split and sitting for at least 1 year. Then I store my wood in a south facing lean too. So no rain just sun and wind all summer long. In the fall I tarp it to keep the snow from blowing onto the wood.
I think my wood is dry. Pretty much all hard maple.
I have no problem getting the flue thermometer into the overheat zone if i am not careful.

By the way I live close to Owen Sound Ontario. So not that cold. But between 10 and 20 degrees below freezing most of Jan and February.

How sure are you about that woods history? Even if it had been sitting for a year, it wouldn't dry very good if it was sitting in a heap.

Hard maple is a lot like oak - maybe OK in 2 years, 3 is definitely better.

I don't know anything about your stove, maybe others will chime in - do you measure stove top temps? Also magnetic gauges can be very suspect - good to verify with an IR gun. Even with your floor, it should be getting hot down there if it is insulated.

 

[2wheels]

How sure are you about that woods history? Even if it had been sitting for a year, it wouldn't dry very good if it was sitting in a heap.

Hard maple is a lot like oak - maybe OK in 2 years, 3 is definitely better.

I don't know anything about your stove, maybe others will chime in - do you measure stove top temps? Also magnetic gauges can be very suspect - good to verify with an IR gun. Even with your floor, it should be getting hot down there if it is insulated.

I have a magnetic temperature gauge that is on the stove pipe, about 12 inches above the stove top. I have an IR thermometer and have verified the magnetic gauge is close to accurate. I was quite surprised at the temperature drop as i measured up the pipe. Starting at stove top and going up 2 feet. It really matters where the thermometer is.

It is too bad there wasn't some standard place (marked on every stove) that says "measure temperature here".
So it would be easier to compare temperatures, and know if i am running the stove hot enough.

I do go by smell. I hope that does not sound odd. But i find stoves have that special smell when they are too hot. That is usually how I decide the maximum temperature to run my stove at. (ie don't go there again)

 

[bholler]

I have a magnetic temperature gauge that is on the stove pipe, about 12 inches above the stove top. I have an IR thermometer and have verified the magnetic gauge is close to accurate. I was quite surprised at the temperature drop as i measured up the pipe. Starting at stove top and going up 2 feet. It really matters where the thermometer is.

It is too bad there wasn't some standard place (marked on every stove) that says "measure temperature here".
So it would be easier to compare temperatures, and know if i am running the stove hot enough.

I do go by smell. I hope that does not sound odd. But i find stoves have that special smell when they are too hot. That is usually how I decide the maximum temperature to run my stove at. (ie don't go there again)

18" above the stovetop on the pipe is the standard. What pipe temps are you running at and what air setting

 

[2wheels]

18" above the stovetop on the pipe is the standard. What pipe temps are you running at and what air setting

I will move my thermometer to 18 inches.
If i load the stove up with 4 logs ( i could probably jam 5 in but usually don't) i need to set the air to close to closed after 20 or 30 minutes or it gets too hot.
So on this stove the air lever moves maximum left is full air. Maximum right is minimum air . That is a movement of about 6 inches.
So I keep it at about 1 inch from the right (minimum) if i am in the room. And right down to minimum if i am leaving the stove unattended.

 

[maple1]

You might not be burning hot enough.

What do you have for chimney?

Was hoping somebody who has one of these stoves might pop in with experienced stove top temp suggestions.

 

[bholler]

I will move my thermometer to 18 inches.
If i load the stove up with 4 logs ( i could probably jam 5 in but usually don't) i need to set the air to close to closed after 20 or 30 minutes or it gets too hot.
So on this stove the air lever moves maximum left is full air. Maximum right is minimum air . That is a movement of about 6 inches.
So I keep it at about 1 inch from the right (minimum) if i am in the room. And right down to minimum if i am leaving the stove unattended.

What temps are you reading on what type of pipe with what type thermometer

 

[begreen]

What temps are you reading on what type of pipe with what type thermometer

3-500º, but didn't say whether this is with single wall or double wall stove pipe.

 

[begreen]

3-500º, but didn't say whether this is with single wall or double wall stove pipe.

If single wall it is a bit on the high side, but the culprit here can be the cold floor acting as a heat sink. I would also do a small exploratory hole in a wall to see if there is insulation there with a 1/4 drill. If insulation comes out on the drill bit then focus on the floor.

FWIW, I have a shop with a concrete floor. The room is insulated but it would take forever to warm it up to say 65º. I put down interlocking 1/2" foam flooring in there and now the place heats up quickly with just a space heater. The difference is quite remarkable. It's also much more comfortable for the feet. Before the cold would penetrate right through my boots if I was working in there for an hour.

 

[2wheels]

The chimney is 6 inch stainless up the outside of the house. About 30 feet outside.

Inside the pipe is single wall. Magnetic thermometer, verified with infared. 300 to 500 F (at 12 inches above the stovetop) (which i will move to 18 inches soon)

 

[begreen]

A good working surface temp on the pipe at 18" would be around 250-300º when the stove air has been shut down all the way. Stove top temp at that point, say 1 hr into the burn, would be around 650º.

The issue could be too much draft. The Summit is an easy breather and it sounds like there is a combined vertical rise of ~35' in the flue system. The 2 90º turns will slow down draft a bit, but it may not be enough. Is there a key damper on the stove pipe?

 

[bholler]

I would recommend first shutting the air off all the way. If that doesn't help install a key damper. Like bg said with that much chimney you probably have excessive draft

 

[2wheels]

I got the tape measure out and put the thermometer at 18 inches, it was closer to 8 ,not 12 like i thought.

I dont think i run the stove to hot. 500 was the peak temp when getting a new load going. Excessive draft is not a problem i dont think. A couple years ago i had to add 4 feet to the outside pipe just to get enough draft.

I have added pictures. The insulated sub floor is what i am going to put in the furnace room. When the furface is changed from oil to propane this spring.

 

[kborndale]

I got the tape measure out and put the thermometer at 18 inches, it was closer to 8 ,not 12 like i thought.

I dont think i run the stove to hot. 500 was the peak temp when getting a new load going. Excessive draft is not a problem i dont think. A couple years ago i had to add 4 feet to the outside pipe just to get enough draft.

I have added pictures. The insulated sub floor is what i am going to put in the furnace room. When the furface is changed from oil to propane this spring.

Floating floors are pretty easy to take apart and put back together. If you are somewhat handy I would put some of that sub flooring under your floating floor.

 

[Hogwildz]

Unless your splits are huge, the Summit easily holds 6-8 depending on size. I split mine fairly large 6-8" and can get 3 or 4 large splits on the bottom and fill in on top with 3 or 4 more. If your splits are larger than that, depending on the wood species, it probably is not as dry as you think. I let my large splits dry for 3 years. Are you loading front to back or side to side? Front to back will give you maximum loading capacity, and no worries about anything rolling forward.