Heat Pump education

[hobbyheater]

My mother in law is 100 years and still heats her house with wood! ( She still drives and works 3 half days a week) I'm 77 and have all the good toys for getting firewood! But putting up 10 to 15 cords for her and 4 for myself is becoming daunting!
The panel for the house is only a 100 amp service that is pretty much maxed out.
The wood furnace is approaching the end of its life.
Her house is in Alert Bay off Northern Vancouver Island with very similar climate as Puget Sound.
The house was built in the early 50's with 1400 sq feet up and 800 down and no inside stairwell.
I know nothing about Heat Pumps but when I heard 30 amp breaker, it could be doable.
When I read installed, is this self installed or done by a contractor?
What brands to stay away from? What brands you would recomend?

 

[DBoon]

Hi hobbyheater, there is probably no better investment than installing one modest size mini split in a central area of a house and just letting it run all winter long.

If your outdoor temperatures are consistently below 5 degrees F, then you probably want to look at the low temperature models from Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, and maybe LG and Samsung. If your temperatures stay warmer your options open up a lot more and your costs fall. There are some very modestly priced units available (e.g., Mr. Cool) that work well with outdoor temperatures into the mid teens (F) and can be self-installed (by someone appropriately handy).

I would recommend not buying a unit that operates at lower temperatures than you need as the overall coefficient of performance (COP - a measure of efficiency) is worse for a low-temperature (e.g., "hyperheat") unit when operating at modest outdoor temperatures compared to a unit that operates at more modest outdoor temperatures (e.g., down to 5 degrees F, or down to 17 degrees F).

Hopefully those 10 to 15 + 4 cords are face cords - that would be an insane amount of work each year if they were full cords, and still a lot of work if face cords.

 

[Dataman]

Consider Midea also. They make the Base Carrier Unit. I put one in April 2025. Great unit so far this Heating Season. I live in E WA State. So far Winter has been very mild except for some nights of 9f. If you put in Heat Pump consider Remy LED for Dust. I have 4" filter on my system and got Reuseable Ones. Sure they cost $300 for 2 of them. But paper ones are 30 bucks a pop for 60 days.

I also put in Humidifier. But you may not need that. Had mine professionally done. Replacement for 23 year old Heat Pump. We have 30a, 50a and 60a breakers. Most of that for Emergency Heat (Heat Strips). You can not get them too.

You can consider Pellet Stove too. Pellets come in 20lb bags also. But I think it's more expensive than Heat Pump. But depends on your Kw Rate (We have .0660 kw).

Midea unit is Low Temp unit. PR says down to -20f. Which I doubt. Plan on switching to pellets at 0f.

Lot of the Units Use Midea as base unit.

Carrier vs Bryant vs Midea vs Panasonic vs ACiQ vs MrCool: Who Really Makes These Side-Discharge Heat Pumps? | Bay Area Climate Control Blog

Discover the truth about modern side-discharge heat pumps. Learn which brands share the same Midea platform and what really matters when choosing between Carrier, Bryant, Panasonic, ACiQ, and MrCool for your Bay Area home.

bayareaclimatecontrol.com

Just for Fun pic of Wife plowing snow you should not get. This year SNOW has not happened like this. We got less than 1" now on the ground I think (Last night it sort of snowed)

 

[Turbo89]

30 amps is probably ok for 1 mini split (some the bigger ones need 40), but I don’t think you’ll be able to heat 1400 sq-ft with (1) 30A breaker. I’ve been looking at the artic rated ones, and the one I’m narrowing in on draws 35A but realistically is only big enough for 800 sq-ft or so.

 

[marty319]

Im in manitoba where it gets frigid,installed a senville here 2 years ago and its been flawless.it threw minimal heat@ -32c.i also helped 4 neighbors install senville units.they installed the ones good to -15 c which would work for you.check out their website,senvilleca

 

[Tonty]

We installed some Mr Cool DIY units in a short term rental house several years ago. These are complete do it yourself installs (depending what your skill set is, I have construction experience). They work great for A/C in summer, and okay in the winter. (North central Kansas) When it gets below 10-15* with wind, they would get supplemented with a wood stove. We did have one inside air handler develope a refrigerant leak after 3 years or so, but it was replaced under warranty. We did have to have a HVAC company come out to leak test and send proof of that in to get the warranty. You are probably aware of this, but these are 220v units.

 

[hobbyheater]

Hopefully those 10 to 15 + 4 cords are face cords - that would be an insane amount of work each year if they were full cords, and still a lot of work if face cords.

Full cords

 

[begreen]

Full cords

That house is leaking or wasting a ton of btus or the furnace is seriously inefficient. 1400 sq ft in the Pac NW should be heatable with 4-5 cords of wood.

 

[hobbyheater]

The house is leaking , furnace is inefficent Plus Motherinlaw likes the house hot, and at 100 she diserves it !

 

[mr meener]

my friend had a mini split brand new and his electric bill went into the stratosphere he wants to rip it off the wall. most people like with their EV cars will bend the truth about owning them. now I guess people will come on and say...oh I hardly see a difference in my electric bill with my spit heater

 

[stoveliker]

That (hardly see a difference) is indeed the case here.
I wonder if your friend has one properly matched (and installed) to his needs.

 

[mr meener]

That (hardly see a difference) is indeed the case here.
I wonder if your friend has one properly matched (and installed) to his needs.

so you have figured out to have free heat. electric heat was always the most expensive for 50 years

 

[stoveliker]

Not free, but (above 40f, as I'm on this website because I burn at lower T), very low cost indeed.

And yes, for many years you had to spend 1 kWh to get 3400 BTUs, which is a high cost. That is electric heat, resistive heat. With a modern efficient mini split you can spend 1 kWh to get 3-5 times as many BTUs than resistive heat.

Comparing modern technology to 1980s stuff doesn't hold any relevance. You don't go on vacation in a car or plane from that age either. Or compare their mileage with a modern car or plane.

Notably, oil is now significantly more expensive too (as my alternative heat beyond wood). So much so that I don't use it anymore.

 

[mr meener]

electric is produced by natural gas coal and maybe oil. they go up. "modern" tech has destroyed most engines of all the car makers even toyota. they were forced to "modernize" their best engines and ruin them. mother boards in German cars after 5 years go and the car is totaled. I knew an old guy had a 79 Mercedes diesel that had 600K on and ran perfectly

 

[stoveliker]

All fine - or not.
That was not what this was about. This was about "mileage", or kWh usage.

 

[mr meener]

All fine - or not.
That was not what this was about. This was about "mileage", or kWh usage.

I just went by what you said about how great new tech is

 

[begreen]

The house is leaking , furnace is inefficent Plus Motherinlaw likes the house hot, and at 100 she diserves it !

Indeed, she deserves a medal for rugged perseverance! A new wood furnace may be the most practical solution. Maybe chat with folks in the Boilder room forum here to get some suggestions. On the mini-split front, a 24k btus unit would likely suffice, especially if the place can be tightened up a bit. That will run on a 20a/240v circuit. If the panel is already full, maybe a couple positions could be freed up by replacing two 120v breakers with tandem breakers?

 

[Max W]

When I had two 9000 btu units installed last year a new sub panel provided the needed space. Like with bgreen’s recent installation I had them add a whole house surge protector.

 

[DBoon]

my friend had a mini split brand new and his electric bill went into the stratosphere he wants to rip it off the wall. most people like with their EV cars will bend the truth about owning them. now I guess people will come on and say...oh I hardly see a difference in my electric bill with my spit heater

Of course your electricity usage (and bill) will go up. At the same time, something else (wood usage, oil usage, propane usage) will go down. The cost per BTU delivered is much less with a mini-split heat pump compared to nearly everything else (natural gas in some areas may be the exception).

My sister installed a 3.5 ton central cold-climate heat pump and a couple of mini splits in her house to replace an old oil furnace and she went from spending $3200 a year on oil (and being cold because she kept the temperature low) and now spends $2000 more on electricity (and is much warmer). So yeah, her electric bill went up and her oil bill went away, and she saves $1200 a year. She pays $0.17/kWh versus about $3.75/gal of oil (two years ago).

electric is produced by natural gas coal and maybe oil. they go up.

Roughly 40% of all US electricity is produced natural gas, 15% by coal, 20% by nukes, and nearly all of the rest (~25%hydropower, wind, and solar PV).

 

[brenndatomu]

Is a modern wood furnace an option? Could likely knock her wood usage down to about the same 4 cords as you guys use...

 

[EbS-P]

At some point if she wants to stay in the house wood may not be an option. I would choose a replacement that utilizes and the current ductwork (if it has it. ) might it require a panel upgrade? Maybe. But doing right (and by that I mean choosing a system that keeps the all rooms at desired temp) if she plans to stay in that house as physical ability decreases.

My mother in law just realized she hadn’t lit her wood stove in three years. (I lit a fire 3 nights this week) She doesn’t have any news paper. She can’t carry firewood. If she got down on her knees to load the stove she couldn’t get back up. She was most concerned about not having news paper. She has no business lighting a fire. If she’s that desperate she need to call someone to take her to a hotel!

 

[hobbyheater]

Is a modern wood furnace an option? Could likely knock her wood usage down to about the same 4 cords as you guys use...

Kumma would be one what are the others ?

 

[brenndatomu]

Kuuma would be my recommendation, hands down the premium product. The Drolet Heat Commander would be the other possibilty...it's been around long enough now that it seems like the bugs have mostly been worked out

 

[begreen]

Kumma would be one what are the others ?

Check the boiler room (and furnace) forum. The Kuuma Vapor-Fire is excellent, but a Drolet Heat Commander II is also an option.

The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces

This Forum is for the topic of Central Heating - specifically with wood, coal, pellets, corn and other solid fuels. We can also discuss multi-fuel systems, which burn oil and gas along with solid fuels. If you are looking to heat your entire house evenly from one location outside the living...

www.hearth.com

 

[hobbyheater]

You don't go on vacation in a car or plane from that age either. Or compare their mileage with a modern car or plane.

A Cardinal RG from the 80's would make me real happy to go on vacation in