Heatilator constitution review

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Jmar

New Member
Feb 2, 2019
5
14067
Here is my experience with the heatilator constitution. I've had this stove for 4 full season and going onto my 5th. The first year I had creosote on the on the pipe and chase cap. I did burn some pine since I was heating my new house while under construction. So I chalked it up to that.

Year 2 I noticed brown stains running down my siding and shingles. I contacted a installer for advice (not the one I had install as they were horrible to deal with and have since stopped installing them). After a few emails we had determined that this was liquid creosote due to my chimney pipe being too cold. The original installer had not insulted the chase (and did not tell me to). So that fall, I ripped apart the exterior of my chase and instead of insulating, we wrapped the pipe with a 1" foil wrapped ceramic blanket with the equivalent of a single wall on a pipe. That winter it was hard to tell if it was working.

So before the 4th winter I painted the chase cap white to see how it faired. It was covered in creosote at the end of the season. I contacted hearth and home technologies (hht) for help. Of course they want to blame wood (which I burn well seasoned dead fall hardwoods from my woods) and not hot enough fire (but when its cold the fire is hot enough to keep the glass clean). Yes, there are times when I damper down, but that's a fireplace. They got the original installer to contact me and he said I need to clean it multiple times through out the winter. (Though they don't even offer a service like this)That's crazy since I only burn about 8 cord a year. HHT also suggested a different cap instead of the tight louvered cap. So before my 5th season I changed the chimney pipe cap to a more open design with a cone to collect creosote and direct it back down the pipe and not onto my new house. I also painted the chase cap again to see anything that drips. Well I'm through about 2-3 cord of wood and its evident the new cap is not working. Contacted HHT again and they gave me the classic response to contact a dealer. I'm out of options. I know what the problem is, my chimney pipe is too cold. I'm in upstate New York and the air insulated stove pipe is too cold for my area. I need a standard double or triple wall to keep the pipe warm and the creosote suspended in the smoke and off my house. HHT said this can't be done, so now I have thousands into this wood burning unit, thousands in damaged to my house and no way to fix it? It's a design flaw that they won't own up to and I'm out tons of money.

I will be contacting another dealer to go through the motions but I'm thinking the only way to fix it is a new stove and wood is probably out (though I love burning wood and have been doing it for over 20 years.) Probably will install a gas to never have this problem again. Would have never got this stove if I knew this would happen. Don't make the same mistake I did. I will post pictures if I figure out how.
 
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Do you know what moisture content your wood is at? How long is it cut split and covered before you burn it?

And btw 8 cords of wood is allot of wood if they are actual cords 4'x4'x8'
 
Sorry. When I say cord, I mean face cord. 4x8x16" I don't have the moisture content. Typically I get the already dead wood out of the woods in September and stack it in the garage or along the garage nd tarp it. Last year it was split and stacked by February for the next season. That was from a maple. That wood was seasoned 2.5 years. Still can't figure out how to post a picture from my phone. Keeps giving me errors with a .jpg file. Pictures would help a lot.
 
I am not following how wood stacked in Feb for the next season is seasoned 2.5 years. But really the seasoning time is irrelevant. What matters is the moisture content on a room temp fresh split face. Get a moisture meter and find out what you have.
 
Any suggestions on what meter to get? 2.5 years seasoned as tree was cut and sitting a year and a half when I split and stacked it in February for the following years use.
 
Any suggestions on what meter to get? 2.5 years seasoned as tree was cut and sitting a year and a half when I split and stacked it in February for the following years use.
Any meter will give you a decent idea of what the mc is. You can usually get one for 20 to 30 bucks. Then take a peice of wood that has been inside for a day split it and stick the pins in that fresh split face.

And wood dries very very slowly in log form. So it was seasoned from the time you split it.
 
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Ok. So I bought a moisture meter and have been playing with that. For the most part my wood is 20-25%. I do have an occasional one that is in the 30's. It may be a little to wet and that's not helping, but it still doesn't explain last year when I was burning nice dry maple.
 
I have the Quad 7100 which is a cousin to yours, and all I can say is that dry wood is absolutely critical in these new stoves. Sure, I can throw some 25-30% MC rounds in there if I keep the air control open, but when I use smaller-split, <20% MC wood, I can load it up, turn down the air as low as it'll go, and watch the secondaries burn for hours just like those youtube videos you see. Dry wood is a non-negotiable for good performance.

And make sure you're testing MC from a fresh split side.
 
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Cool flue gases condensing from trying to burn poorly seasoned wood.
Quick red neck math - you have a 10lb split that's at 25% moisture, 1 gal of water weighs 8.34lbs so 10 pound split x 25% water moisture is 2.5lbs of water weight, add (4) splits like that and your steaming approx. 1 gal of water vapor.
 
Ok. Thanks for the info. So this will cause excessive creosote? I wish I could figure out how to post pictures. I have bad creosote. How do you get the moisture content so low. What is the ideal mc? I can't store it all inside, so some must stay outside. Like you said with the air, I keep the air open about 1/4 and it burns hot enough to keep the glass clean with the wood I burn. I'm use to burning in a wood furnace with a masonry chimney. Never had these problems. Thanks again!
 
Yours is a classic wet wood story, but that's not the only factor.

Any time you get offgassing wood and a flue temperature under 250°, you are going to get creosote unless your stove's secondary combustion is perfect (which it isn't).

That said, the stove does have some responsibility, because if it is fed and run right, it should be reburning most of the creosote before it hits the flue. Your part of that equation is to keep it burning hot enough that the secondary combustion works (which is pretty hot with a tube stove, much lower with a cat stove).

I burn 2-3 cords a year (which if I am reading right is the same as your 8 face cords?), and I sweep several times a year. Takes 10 minutes and it's free. Get a sooteater and you can do it without getting out of your chair.

Advice:
  • Get a meter and check your wood's MC. You may require more time or better shelter for your stacks. Switch to pine if you don't have any dry oak; pine can season in 1 year under cover.
  • Burn hot enough that your secondaries burn for the entire offgassing phase. This both burns creosote directly and keeps the flue warm enough that it cannot condense.
  • If you require lower burns than that, get a cat stove.
  • Get a brush or sooteater and clean your flue regularly, but this won't be so important after you do the above items.
A new stove will likely have the same issues if you don't address the above. You have made a good start by insulating the flue!


...and a footnote on pine, if anyone cares.

Burning pine causing creosote is a myth that seems to live exclusively in the northeast. Plenty of people in the north and northwest burn only pine/spruce/fir. (I kinda like this myth because I live in NY where everyone knows that it is true, so my favorite firewood is always available.)

Pine can make creosote just like any other wood, but it is less likely to because it burns hot and it seasons fast.

If anything, the pine-makes-creosote thing is the opposite of the truth, especially for new burners who don't have several years of wood under cover. A first year burner with a stack of oak that he just cut or that he bought from a firewood seller? That is a chimney fire waiting to happen.

If someone tells you me that you are going to burn your house down if you burn pine, ask them how and why that will happen. If they know enough to say "creosote", ask them under what conditions creosote condenses (correct answer: wood is offgassing, gasses hit a surface <250°, aggravated by inadequate secondary combustion)- and how pine contributes.

Zero intelligible answers so far in my surveys. :)
 
Zero intelligible answers so far in my surveys. :)
We need to go to the bar and have this conversation, maybe invite bhollar to come with us.
 
I bought my Constitution used...maybe had 20 fires in it by the prior owners....they didn't like it...I scraped
Creosote from the pipe and above the baffle...had this thing installed...it is a great unit....
Literally no problems. Dry wood is paramount, as is an outside air kit. I have over 3000 Sq ft on my main floor...
Super tight, 6" walls, foam insulated...it Heats this floor to 78 deg. on 15 deg. days.
 
I bought my Constitution used...maybe had 20 fires in it by the prior owners....they didn't like it...I scraped
Creosote from the pipe and above the baffle...had this thing installed...it is a great unit....
Literally no problems. Dry wood is paramount, as is an outside air kit. I have over 3000 Sq ft on my main floor...
Super tight, 6" walls, foam insulated...it Heats this floor to 78 deg. on 15 deg. days.
That’s what it’s all about, envious of you