Heating a long ranch home - install ducts?

[buzcranne]

Hi everyone. I'm new around here, and I have a few questions. Hopefully somebody here just loves thinking about this stuff.

I purchased a long ranch home less than a year ago. It currently has electric baseboard heat in each room. It also has a masonry fireplace in the main living space in the center of the house, which we used some last year. I'm planning to put in an wood burning insert or a stove instead.

Which brings me to my issue. I would like to be able to use the woodstove to heat the entire house. Heating the main living space will be easy, but the rest of the long house is tough. I'm attaching an image here that's a rough layout of the house. In the drawing the fireplace is, obviously, where I'll be putting the new woodstove. The red ceiling ducts do not currently exist, but I would install them, possibly with an inline fan in each to encourage air flow.

See Attached Image

My concerns are:
1) With a stove large enough to heat this house (almost 3000 sq ft), will I be over-heating the main living area, even with the new ducts in place? The comfort of the main living area is what matters most to me and I have a low tolerance for being hot.
2) Will I be able to move enough air into the "Family Room" to actually heat it?
3) Are inline fans necessary in the duct work?
4) Anything dumb I'm overlooking?
5) Any other ideas?

All advice is very welcome. Thanks, and I look forward to learning enough to be able to give back.

-Rehingd

 

[buzcranne]

I should also mention... I realize the second bathroom won't heat. I'm ok with that. And, the house is moderately well insulated. It was built in '78, haven't noticed major drafts. I know the attic is insulated well.

 

[karl]

It works better to blow cold air towards the stove room instead of blowing hot air away from it.

You might try putting what you have drawn in the floor instead of the ceiling and move cold air that way.

Fans will be needed.

I have a ranch and it's a little more open that yours and I use column fans without all the ductwork and it does well.

 

[buzcranne]

Thanks, karl. In your house you point the column fans toward the heated room?

I may give that a shot before installing duct work. We're pretty tolerant of cool sleeping quarters at my house and spend a vast majority of our time in the main living space.

 

[buzcranne]

Thanks, karl. In your house you point the column fans toward the heated room rather than toward the remote rooms?

I may give that a shot before installing duct work. We're pretty tolerant of cool sleeping quarters at my house and spend a vast majority of our time in the main living space.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I don't think that you're in bad shape with the stove in the middle of the house like that! Install it and just turn on the ceiling fans in the livingroom, kitchen and hallways, keep the doors open, and see how she goes.

 

[buzcranne]

Thanks, Adios.

I don't know why it would matter, but in this thread there's a pic of the fireplace where I'll be installing the new stove:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/24458/

 

[begreen]

The family room looks to be the main challenge. It seems to be asking for it's own little heater. The bedroom area should heat ok with a fan on the floor at the far end of the hallway, blowing toward the stove area.

 

[labrador]

My ranch is very similar to yours, 3200 sq. ft. total on two floors. My fireplace (see through) I put in a Jotul 550 Rockland. It is the largest one they make, heating up to 1800 sq. ft. 65,000 BTU. I have not used it through a winter since I purchased it in July. It heats the kitchen, dining room and living room (850) sq. ft. more than adequately. Raised the temp from 68 to 74 with no problem. I have long hallway, with rooms on both sides, with our bedroom at the end. I have installed a small fan on the bedroom door frame to pull heat into the bedroom. We generally keep the bedroom at 62 and are comfortable. Don't know yet if the bedroom fan will bring up the temp there. I would think if you had ceiling fans pushing the warm back down you should be very warm. If you are interested in Jotul their web is jotul.us. There are other good inserts as well. One drawback of the inserts is if the power fails , no fan. There are woodstoves that heat larger areas and I think have fans but you always have radiant heat. Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[buzcranne]

If I get a unit big enough to heat the whole house, including the family room, and then find that the heat won't get out there, think I'll have a problem of overheating the rest of the house?

 

[begreen]

The stove (Avalon Perfect Fit) I posted in the other thread is almost the same size as the Rockland at 2.5 cu ft, but it's flush.

It's not the size of the stove that will overheat the room, it's how you burn it. I don't think you'll overheat the whole house unless you run it full tilt in May. We have a 3 cu ft stove heating 2000 sq ft in a milder climate and it's just fine.

 

[buzcranne]

In the event of a power outage (no blower), how is the performance of a flush mount insert as compared to a bumped out insert as compared to a stove?

I've been measuring and researching and thinking, and a stove of the right size to heat my house is close to too big for the space I have. An insert will fit better. But being able rely in it during a power outage is part of the point of getting it.

I really appreciate the help you guys are giving. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

An insert or a stove tucked into the belly of the fireplace is going to need a blower to put out the heat. It will still naturally convect, but not as well.

 

[labrador]

How many power outages have you experienced during the past five winters? How long have they lasted for? Up here in Schoharie county, NY living in a rural area I have never seen an outage of more than six hours at the most. A number of years ago we did have an eight inch snowfall in early October that brought down many tree branches on electric wires, but since it was October it was not super cold. A wood stove will ALWAYS give you radiant heat.

 

[buzcranne]

I've only been in this house for 8 months. We've had a few short outages in that time. Three were more than 12 hours. One was more than 2 days. Besides, if the election goes the wrong way we'll all be practicing sustenance living within a couple of years. I just wish I could figure out which way was the right way for it to go.

But back to heating... Right now I'm looking at the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 and a Buck Stove Model 81. I've abandoned the idea of heating all 3000 sq ft with this unit. We have a large room (1000 sq ft) that is going to be hard to heat because of the house's layout, so I'll probably put a separate stove out there eventually and focus on heating the main house's 2000 sq ft now.

I really like the looks of the T5. And the nice even heat described in BeGreen's review of the T6 makes it really tempting. The Trivet top is nice too, but there will be such a small amount of clearance on the top I may not be able to take much advantage of it.

The Buck Stove, on the other hand, can be used as an insert. If I went that way and I would probably not put a trim kit around it. The lack of a trim kit would hopefully increase circulation. The Buck Stove is several hundred dollars cheaper too, which matters.

Any opinions?

Buck Stove: (broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/wood/model81.html)
T5: (broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/product_alderleaT5.php)

 

[begreen]

I think the advantages of the Alderlea might be wasted by putting it in the fireplace. However, as a freestanding stove in the family room it would be excellent.

You came to here asking for advice, so I am going to put it straight, get an ~ 3 cu ft insert or stove for the longer burntime. If it were me I'd be measuring up for an Englander 30 NC or a PE Summit in the fireplace. Or the aforementioned Avalon insert. The stove will get no hotter than the fuel and air you feed it. If it gets too warm, let the fire die down and put less wood in next time. You've got 3000 sq ft there. Don't mess around with little stuff or you will be complaining here in January. The family room may get sub-optimal heating from the wood stove but it will get something as long as the ceiling fans are going.

 

[crazy_dan]

If you are going for a BTU to $$$ relationship then an Englander 30 should also make the short list.
There are several folks on here who are using the englander 30 with complaints like "it doesn't load itself"
Both Buck and PE are well known "Name Brands" and you pay for the name.
Englander makes a good solid product from what I have seen at Sutherlands (local hardware store that carrys them).
Plus the 30 can be had for about $900 around here 1/2 the price of the PE summit.

 

[stanleyjohn]

I have also heard positive reports on the englanders!With the extra savings you can get a small gas generator setup to power the stove and house fans with maybe some tv while the powers out.

 

[buzcranne]

I'm close to sold on the Englander. I went to a local Home Depot to have a look, and they didn't have the 30, but has a smaller model there. I can see why the Englanders are less expensive than some... visible welds and such make them not the most beautiful of stoves. But those things don't impact function/durability, and a quality-built stove for that price seems hard to beat.

Now I just need to find one.

Thanks again for everyone's input. I'm glad I found this forum.

 

[buzcranne]

On Home Depot's web site the Englander is listed as Model 30-NCH. I assume the "H" is added to the end of the Englander model number because it's a "H"ome Depot model. Some companys have lower quality versions of their products that they sell through big box stores. Any Idea if the Home Depot model of the Englander 30 is any different from the standard model?

Also, it's listed at $1300 which seems high according to what others have been saying here.

 

[crazy_dan]

From what I understand It is a trim thing I forget if it is Home Depot or Lowe's that has a trim kit included with it.
That is the difference cosmetic, not quality may have some trim tossed in the box with the stove.
Also do you have a Lowe's in the area if so find out who is cheaper and then go to the higher priced one and get the price match + 10% off.

 

[begreen]

FWIW, this is the often most expensive time of the year to buy a stove or wood. The stove market is additionally stressed right now primarily due to the significantly increased sales back east. Prices have risen according to demand.

Have you measured up your fireplace carefully to be sure that the stove will fit and that the flue line up pretty well? It's probably fine, but worth checking these details in advance. The 30NC is not a lightweight stove. You'll only want to do this once.

 

[buzcranne]

I just paid for an Englander. It turns out the in-store price of the Englander is $1000. The online price says "price includes shipping" so I guess the shipping accounts for the extra $300 online.

My local Home Depot is sold out, as are all the others in the area. Supposedly they're getting a shipment on 10/10 so I paid for it today. Hopefully they will actually get that shipment, but I'm going to continue looking for somebody who has one in stock. Luckily I can renege on the purchase at Home Depot any any point.

I can't find any detailed measurements of the Englander online like I can of other stoves, but according to the general dimensions and the pictures I'm certain it will fit. I'm 95% sure I'll get the flue lined up without a lot of work, and I'm 99.9% sure I could get it lined up with work.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll let you know whether I actually get the stove and how I like it.

 

[labrador]

Good luck on the Englander. I hope HD comes through for you. Don't let them give you a run around, try to pin them down on an exact date they expect shipment. Hope you have a good supply of wood. Let us all know when it is delivered to your house.

 

[svdnks]

I am in the HVAC trade and know people who have fireplaces and want to duct them into the main duct work and use the furnace blower to circulate the air. It's o.k. if it's done right, but we recommend not ducting them together and just running the furnace fan on continuous setting. It helps if you have high return(s) in the same room as the fireplace to draw the warm air off the ceiling and distribute it throughout the whole house. It works quite well. If you are going to install some duct throughout the house, I would recommend one main trunk with individual runs off of it to supply areas away from the main. This way you have only one blower motor running. Ideally, you want the supply registers low if the returns are high for better air mixing, but it's not necessary. I would't pull all the return air from the fireplace room as it could over heat the blower motor. It could be mounted horizontally ( have seen them verticle also) in the attic and you could install an air handler with or without an evaporator coil and be ready for central a/c if so desired. It is recommended to place registers in front of windows and close to outside doors to temper the air and being toward the outside of the rooms, the air will mix better as it travels back to the return. The newer furnaces don't run on high speed on continuous fan so they don't make as much noise and cost about the same as a 75 or 100 watt bulb to run. Duct sizing is very important so if you don't know what you need ask a professional. Good luck.