Heatmaster wood boiler leak

[Take no prisoners]

I have a G200s Heatmaster wood boiler that has a 'phantom' leak...

I went away for the weekend and stacked the boiler with wood (something I have done numerous times over the last 4 years) to keep it going as long as possible before my electric furnace (Back-up) comes into action.
When I returned 3 days later the Heatmaster had emptied itself out completely.. yeap there was a mega puddle on the ground and it had completely emptied itself. As I opened the the ash clean-out at the bottom of the boiler remaining water rushed out... and the gauge showed empty!
I decided to fill the boiler up again to see if I could identify where the leak was. I filled it up to full and looking into the rear of the ash box I could not see any trickle..dribble..or any water anywhere!? Its now 3 weeks and the gauge is still 'FULL' and no sign of any leak ANYWHERE... I have not lit it again.... WTF is going on?? All I can think of is that when it's running hot something is expanding and opening up a crack or seam. Any suggestions or has anyone experienced the same?

 

[brenndatomu]

Sounds like you are on the right track...even gas/oil fired boilers are prone to leak a lil when they go cold...usually at gasket surfaces, which I dunno if the HM G200 has any? You might call HM and ask them for ideas...

 

[salecker]

I would say you can narrow down where the leak is by where the water line was when it was empty.
So somewhere near the bottom inside...

 

[Take no prisoners]

I would say you can narrow down where the leak is by where the water line was when it was empty.
So somewhere near the bottom inside...

Yeap... the water gauge from full dropped to 1/2 when it first drained itself... now, 3 weeks later, its still showing full after I refilled the boiler cold to see if i could locate the leak. Today I was going to fire it up and remove the side panel to see if I can get a look at the rear of the water jacket once it reaches working temperature, but the weather has turned ugly and rain is expected so this could be a job for tomorrow.

 

[salecker]

By your comment of water rushing out of the ash clean out i would not bother removing side panels as the leak must be inside to fill up the ash chamber.
I would clean the burn chamber of any ash,go as far as vacuum it out maybe. Then fill it and rig up a way to pressurize the water jacket and see what happens. As i think these are an open system i would not get crazy with high pressure, maybe 15-20 to start. When i tested my pressurized system i did it at 80 PSI looking for leaks. Shut off your heat and return lines when you pressurize it.
That would be my way, if that doesn't show where it's leaking then start a fire and monitor it.

 

[Take no prisoners]

By your comment of water rushing out of the ash clean out i would not bother removing side panels as the leak must be inside to fill up the ash chamber.
I would clean the burn chamber of any ash,go as far as vacuum it out maybe. Then fill it and rig up a way to pressurize the water jacket and see what happens. As i think these are an open system i would not get crazy with high pressure, maybe 15-20 to start. When i tested my pressurized system i did it at 80 PSI looking for leaks. Shut off your heat and return lines when you pressurize it.
That would be my way, if that doesn't show where it's leaking then start a fire and monitor it.

Yeap, it is an open water system so would not be able to pressurize it, I removed one of the side panels only to find about 6" of heavy insulation and was now facing the inner casing of the boiler which is the water jacket external housing... I was hoping to see the jacket water couplings that emerge from the rear to the external pumps but it's a solid flat casing with no access to the inner guts. The only way I see to gain access would be with an angle grinder But that would not be a good idea! As you say, the only solution, will be to restart it and get it up to temperature as I suspect the leak occurs when everything expands and the affected area will start leaking again... however I will still be unable to see where its leaking from other than when it emerges through the ash clear-out section. The boiler has been in 5 years and Heatmaster have said they would not honour their 10 year warranty because I did not send in water samples to them for 2 seasons... rather difficult to do when we were snow-birding on both occasions and the boiler sat idle for the periods. So I have a bit of a 'situation' going on with them .. especially when they say they do not manufacture this unit anymore OR the smaller one! Incidentally when I decided to instal a wood boiler I calculated that a 100,000 BTU was sufficient for my needs BUT their agent (Untrained) insisted on the 200,000 BTU and that I should 'go big or go home' . I think he was talking about his commission! Anyway their rep said he is 'hunting around' to locate a boiler for me but I will be facing a $10K invoice + freight!!

 

[hedge wood]

If it was me I would try to get it clean out the best you can in all the corners before you fire it up. Probably has a crack at a weld. By cleaning it up first you might see some water seeping out.

 

[salecker]

Even though it is an open system you can find ways to seal it up enough to pressurize it to look for leaks.
Seal up the vents,fill pipe with rubber hose and clamps. They will hold to get you to some pressure. You have nothing to lose other than your time.
Clean it out real good and try tapping with a small hammer
The response from the company sounds typical nowadays. Lawyers and their weasel words got paid i am sure.

 

[Take no prisoners]

Even though it is an open system you can find ways to seal it up enough to pressurize it to look for leaks.
Seal up the vents,fill pipe with rubber hose and clamps. They will hold to get you to some pressure. You have nothing to lose other than your time.
Clean it out real good and try tapping with a small hammer
The response from the company sounds typical nowadays. Lawyers and their weasel words got paid i am sure.

Yeah.. I guess that's all I can do...but STILL waiting for Heatmaster to get back to me with the 'search' for the same boiler. Last week I was offered another model that has TWICE the BTU output... Why would I want a boiler that is twice the size of the boiler I already have when the existing one is TWICE the size I needed from the get-go ??

 

[salecker]

Do you have storage in your system?
Then you get away from the boiler idling with low heat loads.Which may or may not be a reason for leaks but helps with time away from home.
The unit will run at optimum output and you don't have to plan everything around stoking the box

 

[Take no prisoners]

Do you have storage in your system?
Then you get away from the boiler idling with low heat loads.Which may or may not be a reason for leaks but helps with time away from home.
The unit will run at optimum output and you don't have to plan everything around stoking the box

No ...no storage just a system that loops through 3 heat exchangers 3 separate zones and back to the boiler

 

[salecker]

Seeing you will be working on your system...
Do some reading about storage,you may decide to add some while you are down and having to do some repairs or change the boiler

 

[Take no prisoners]

Seeing you will be working on your system...
Do some reading about storage,you may decide to add some while you are down and having to do some repairs or change the boiler

I CERTAINLY will not be paying $10k for another boiler, as per Heatmasters suggestion, so I am considering enclosing the platform that the boiler sits on, into an insulated shed and install a condensing propane boiler and hooking it up into the original boiler flow & return lines to the house. It will work out much cheaper and more versatile than the wood boiler and associated hassle especially when we tend to go away for long periods. Not too mention going into the wilderness to lug back tons of firewood. I found that wood boilers are more hassle than they are worth... not practical...messy requiring constant attention with cleaning out the ash..creosote..burn chambers..flues...automatic dampers not to mention the yearly mailing of the water sample to Heatmaster so that they can honour (term used very loosely!!) the warranty and so on.

 

[brenndatomu]

The boiler has been in 5 years and Heatmaster have said they would not honour their 10 year warranty because I did not send in water samples to them for 2 seasons... rather difficult to do when we were snow-birding on both occasions and the boiler sat idle for the periods.

Its not just HM, nobody is going to honor a wood fired boiler leak warranty if you don't send in annual water sample...and I don't think it has to be sent on "December 15th", it just needs to be annually, so you could have sent sample before, or after snowbirding...or both

 

[Take no prisoners]

Its not just HM, nobody is going to honor a wood fired boiler leak warranty if you don't send in annual water sample...and I don't think it has to be sent on "December 15th", it just needs to be annually, so you could have sent sample before, or after snowbirding...or both

Rather difficult when one is away for 24 months

 

[brenndatomu]

Rather difficult when one is away for 24 months

Maybe arrange a sample with a neighbor, or buddy...or call HM and get approval to skip? Too late now though...

 

[cumminstinkerer]

I don't see the hassle with my Polar, open the door, load the firebox, close the door, maybe 3 times a day if its really cold and windy (like below 0F) once a week scoop ashes out of reaction chamber (lower tunnel), get maybe a third of a 5 gallon bucket out of it, clean the exhaust fan 2 times a year, remove 4 bolts and two electrical plugs, five minutes with a wire brush on the vanes, reinstall! Going on year 3 now and cleaned the fire tubes once, didn't need to but was curious and needed something to get out of the house!

 

[salecker]

My system is pretty much no hassle
All automatic other than a shutdown once the fire is gone. I have to go out at the end of the burn and shut off the power
I clean my flue tubes every couple cords of wood, so every two months.It's a pressurized system so no water sampling.
As for getting wood i look forward to the fall exercise regime as it gets me ready for my wither job.
And with storage i can build my fires when it is conviniant.
I will have to replace mine at some point,going on year 14 or 15 this coming winter

 

[Case1030]

Its not just HM, nobody is going to honor a wood fired boiler leak warranty if you don't send in annual water sample...and I don't think it has to be sent on "December 15th", it just needs to be annually, so you could have sent sample before, or after snowbirding...or both

The company can still do better than charge 10k on a 4 year old boiler regardless of a missing water sample considering it would have been 100% coverage to the 5 year mark. Shouldn't fail in 4 years but after seeing many posts last couple years this is becoming a trend.

 

[brenndatomu]

but after seeing many posts last couple years this is becoming a trend.

?

 

[sloeffle]

The company can still do better than charge 10k on a 4 year old boiler regardless of a missing water sample considering it would have been 100% coverage to the 5 year mark. Shouldn't fail in 4 years but after seeing many posts last couple years this is becoming a trend.

What brand of boiler do you sell ? If I was a betting man, I'd bet it's also known as the coldest intersection in Canada. I've also heard that Brian isn't very generous when it comes to warranty claims either. I also heard first hand from one of his dealers that he also doesn't like to pay dealers to fix boilers that aren't wired up correctly from the factory.

I believe the pot is calling the kettle black in this situation.

 

[Case1030]

What brand of boiler do you sell ? If I was a betting man, I'd bet it's also known as the coldest intersection in Canada. I've also heard that Brian isn't very generous when it comes to warranty claims either. I also heard first hand from one of his dealers that he also doesn't like to pay dealers to fix boilers that aren't wired up correctly from the factory.

I believe the pot is calling the kettle black in this situation.

My first boiler was a Heatmaster if you have forgotten...

 

[brenndatomu]

My first boiler was a Heatmaster if you have forgotten...

I don't recall it leaking...did it?