Help! Chimney fire & everything needs to be replaced

[begreen]

FPX is a good brand. It looks like there are two dealers, one in Virginia Beach (Ray Johnson's Fireplace) and one in Hertford, NC (Tarheel Fireplace). Note however that the overall dimensions of the 44 Elite Wood Fireplace are too large. It has a 49" wide cabinet. The rectangular faced FPX 42 Apex and the arched FPX 36 Elite have a 42" wide cabinet. The Quadrafire 7100 is also arched and fits in a 42" space. There is a Quadrafire dealer in Chesapeake, VA (Magic Sweep Fireplace Shop). They also sell the sister fireplace - the Heat & Go Northstar.

A rectangular faced fireplace goes better with the horizontal stonework, but perhaps a good mason could come up with a way of creating an arch with vertical stones matching the existing? The Northstar photo hints at how this might be done.

 

[Irishroses]

Unfortunately FPX will not work in my case due to clearances and such. My hearth would have to be a lot wider and my mantel would have to be a lot taller and farther away from the fireplace. Its funny (no, its not), but I found all of my old notes from when we had the fireplace built. I got a headache just reading them and remembering what a pain in the butt the whole process was because even though the company said they were a fireplace and chimney company, they really didnt know fully what they were doing. Simple things like leaving all the booklets, manuals and instructions built in with the fireplace and no way to access it. (Yeah it had to be torn down and opened back up.) Not building it right so that my hearth didnt fit and I had to go out and buy a new one that would fit. They didnt do the insert right, so when it came time to order the fancy doors, well, because of what they did, we couldnt have that either. And forget about returning calls...... yeah long list of pages with numbers called, the amount of calls that day, etcc.. and it took several weeks to get a return phone call back from the lead guy, and things were going wrong on this end.

So on these other energy efficient fireplaces, I wonder if I would have thte same clearance problems with them? Just checking what all of my options are.

So I went to get 3 guys out here, the last guy blew my mind. Tells me I didnt have a fire and that I should be good to go and start lighting fires in my fireplace. Now mind you I have creosote there. Told me that if I had had a fire that there would be no creosote and that my chimney would be either completely clean or purple and that I would have heard a freight train. When I asked about the fact that I saw flames coming out of the chimney, he said Oh well then you had a little fire up there, maybe a birds nest, and whatever it was burnt off and you should be fine now. Just a little fire? Now, I had called this guy for a price quote on replacing my fireplace.......... after he tells me there was No Fire, he then gives me a bill for $65 for a LEVEL I Inspection.............. What on earth???? He NEVER said anything about that...... I thought I was getting a free estimate. On my form he wrote the wrong first name, but better yet....... he wrote the type of fireplace is MASONRY........... And its companies like that that give me a heart attack. I'm sure he is a good guy, but I that fee on the end that was never discussed, was kind of a D move and I dont think he is seeing the whole picture. I did see a fire, no matter how much he wants to downplay it.

I must say that I have experienced now a number of different chimney sweeps in cleaning my chimney and the disparity between them is amazing and scary at the same time. One company started to clean and then saw the creosote and immediately stopped and said we cant do this, you need to do the rotary cleaning, I mean that company was only starting to clean 2 minutes when they bailed? Other companies say they dont recommend rotary cleaning on my type of system because it is really hard on the flue. Somewhere in the middle here is the truth, but I dont know what it is.

So, back to looking for options on the fireplace......... the FX doesnt work, what else do I have? Oh yeah, I have to take the stones down to get the fireplace out. Sign me confused and frustrated.

 

[begreen]

It's hard to say who is correct here. We do not have eyes on site. Was the first sweep that condemned the fireplace a CSIA certified sweep that provided a written report for the insurance company? Did that sweep provide or offer to provide photo documentation of the issues for the insurance company? If not, then was the fellow that just came out a certified inspector? If the last guy did a proper inspection and the fireplace is ok then $65 was a cheap price. It could be that he just saved you a lot of money. If he is totally wrong then he should refund the money.
https://www.houselogic.com/organize-maintain/home-maintenance-tips/chimney-inspection-facts/
Enter your zip code here to find local CSIA certified sweeps -
www.csia.org

There are varying degrees of chimney fires from minor burnout at the top to the full freight train roar. When you saw flames coming out of the chimney how long did the flames last? What was being burned at the time?

 

[webby3650]

Unfortunately some companies are quick to condemn a Fireplace after a flue fire. All they see are dollar signs from the insurance company. It’s possible that you have no damage, only greedy people.

 

[webby3650]

We most often replace a unit like yours with a Kozy Z-42. It’s a pretty easy change out usually, with little reframing. The FPX would be a huge undertaking! There’s a lot going on behind the scenes, not a good fit.

 

[Squisher]

I can't resist the rotary cleaning comments. As a sweep IMO rotary cleaning is superior on all metal chimneys.

I've been doing my own expirements and on metal chimneys IMO there is no comparison. Rotary all the way.

Now on masonry I've been expirementing too and this is what I've found. After cleaning rotary I am unable to get anything more significant out going over with a brush. Yet after brush cleaning first I've had more come off with the rotary. This has been my experience so far.

Now rotary gives you less feel for the chimney, espescially on masonry.

I visually verify all my cleanings either by looking up as far as possible from the bottom and by looking down as far as possible from the top and if any doubt or significant blind spots are encountered I video the flue with a video recording flashlight with a proper holder that fits on my rods. Very high quality imaging.

I'd love to hear others thoughts on this?

Certainly as has been pointed out. All sweeps are not created equal. Look for someone certified and ask them lots of questions while they are there.

 

[bholler]

I can't resist the rotary cleaning comments. As a sweep IMO rotary cleaning is superior on all metal chimneys.

I've been doing my own expirements and on metal chimneys IMO there is no comparison. Rotary all the way.

Now on masonry I've been expirementing too and this is what I've found. After cleaning rotary I am unable to get anything more significant out going over with a brush. Yet after brush cleaning first I've had more come off with the rotary. This has been my experience so far.

Now rotary gives you less feel for the chimney, espescially on masonry.

I visually verify all my cleanings either by looking up as far as possible from the bottom and by looking down as far as possible from the top and if any doubt or significant blind spots are encountered I video the flue with a video recording flashlight with a proper holder that fits on my rods. Very high quality imaging.

I'd love to hear others thoughts on this?

Certainly as has been pointed out. All sweeps are not created equal. Look for someone certified and ask them lots of questions while they are there.

We have switched to almost all rotary. It is faster easier and more effective.

 

[Hogwildz]

You need a sweep that can send a cam down and then show you the actual condition.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

Wood burning is lifestyle, and it requires commitment and consistency. That's what I tell people I know who ask me about burning wood.

Regarding chimney cleaning, I recommend either developing a good working relationship (first name basis) with a CSIA certified sweep who cleans your chimney exclusively, or learn to properly clean it yourself. And as others have said, sometimes the chimney needs cleaning more often, maybe once per month.

As for the current condition of the chimney and, "Was it a fire?", find a CSIA certified sweep and have them inspect the chimney, including recorded video and written report. Then you will know more surely and have some evidence in your possession.

 

[bholler]

Wood burning is lifestyle, and it requires commitment and consistency. That's what I tell people I know who ask me about burning wood.

Regarding chimney cleaning, I recommend either developing a good working relationship (first name basis) with a CSIA certified sweep who cleans your chimney exclusively, or learn to properly clean it yourself. And as others have said, sometimes the chimney needs cleaning more often, maybe once per month.

As for the current condition of the chimney and, "Was it a fire?", find a CSIA certified sweep and have them inspect the chimney, including recorded video and written report. Then you will know more surely and have some evidence in your possession.

They saw flames out the top absolutely no question it was a fire. Yes it should be scanned and damage documented.

I will add that honestly if you have to clean more than once a year you are doing something wrong. Some choose to do it even though they don't have to and that is up to them. But if you are burning dry wood properly you should easily be able to go a year.

 

[begreen]

The problem is getting dry wood. Many people have to rely on wood sellers and do not have an area for storing more than what they will use in a season. People that are at the mercy of wood sellers often do not have a moisture meter, or an axe or a maul. In this circumstance it really pays to find a good, reputable dealer that truly sells seasoned wood and get on their schedule early. If possible get your wood delivered in April. Stack it off the ground and top cover it. If the wood is not ideally seasoned then the chimney will need to be cleaned more frequently.

 

[webby3650]

We have switched to almost all rotary. It is faster easier and more effective.

Same here

 

[Sodbuster]

The problem is getting dry wood. Many people have to rely on wood sellers and do not have an area for storing more than what they will use in a season. People that are at the mercy of wood sellers often do not have a moisture meter, or an axe or a maul. In this circumstance it really pays to find a good, reputable dealer that truly sells seasoned wood and get on their schedule early. If possible get your wood delivered in April. Stack it off the ground and top cover it. If the wood is not ideally seasoned then the chimney will need to be cleaned more frequently.

If you are looking for dry seasoned firewood, in my opinion, it's more effective to buy it a year before you use it, and season it yourself, rather than trying to find a wood seller that is consistently honest.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

They saw flames out the top absolutely no question it was a fire. Yes it should be scanned and damage documented.

I will add that honestly if you have to clean more than once a year you are doing something wrong. Some choose to do it even though they don't have to and that is up to them. But if you are burning dry wood properly you should easily be able to go a year.

My emphasis on getting reliable, professional help from a certified sweep is because eye witness accounts/testimony is notoriously fallible. I hear you. Something was going on. But the average person is not knowledgeable or skilled enough to know "what" was going on.

As for sweeping the chimney more often, it sure is easy insurance, especially if one does their own. When I was growing up, wood was our exclusive heating fuel. We cleaned once per year. But we burned properly season wood and burned continuously from start of season until the end. We also operated the stove at proper temps. No problems. Well, except for my neighbor friend stepping on a nail in my dad's garage. But despite years of heating experience, I check my chimney every month and clean as needed. It's cheap insurance for me.

 

[bholler]

My emphasis on getting reliable, professional help from a certified sweep is because eye witness accounts/testimony is notoriously fallible. I hear you. Something was going on. But the average person is not knowledgeable or skilled enough to know "what" was going on.

As for sweeping the chimney more often, it sure is easy insurance, especially if one does their own. When I was growing up, wood was our exclusive heating fuel. We cleaned once per year. But we burned properly season wood and burned continuously from start of season until the end. We also operated the stove at proper temps. No problems. Well, except for my neighbor friend stepping on a nail in my dad's garage. But despite years of heating experience, I check my chimney every month and clean as needed. It's cheap insurance for me.

Yes but when you see flames coming out the top of the chimney that is pretty clear.

And yes I am not saying cleaning more than once a year is bad. But if it is needed it shows that something is not working right.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

And yes I am not saying cleaning more than once a year is bad. But if it is needed it shows that something is not working right.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Squisher]

The only thing that strikes me about it is excessive cleaning can cause unnecessary wear and tear to the system.

But overcleaning is certainly better than not cleaning enough.

 

[Doc C]

When I bought our house I tried 2 years in a row to try to find a chimney sweep I trusted. I am perfectly capable of cleaning my chimney but it's a 2 story house with a sketchy roof so I was wanting someone else to clean it every year.

Both times I had someone out, I went up and cleaned the chimney AFTER they left and before I had burned another fire.

Both times I got a lot of creosote, alot more then I felt I should of being that it was just cleaned that day.

Needless to say I clean my own chimney every year now.

I am sure there are great chimney sweeps, even some good ones on here.

I just did not have the chance of finding one in my area.

In everything important I do I follow the trust yet verify rule.

 

[Squisher]

This is very true. I often tell people as with all things not all sweeps are created equal. That's why I encourage people to ask their sweep lots of questions. A good sweep should have proper answers to those questions and shouldn't make it up as they go, which can be hard to ascertain at times. But IMO a good sweep will explain to you the basics of woodburning and should give you details about your system and how to operate it. They should discuss with you proper burning techniques, the importance of cured wood, how to verify what you're doing, and give an overall assessment of your system. Obviously pointing out any deficiencies and documenting them as well as giving options for fixing those deficiencies.

I am the newer sweep in my area and am constantly amazed at how previous sweeps don't even speak to the homeowner. Head down, shuffle soot, collect the pay and out the door. When people ask me how long a sweep takes I let them know to count on it taking a couple of hours for the first time atleast. I'm amazed at how often I hear shock in response, and that the last guy was in and out in half an hour.

The more I can educate my customers the easier my job becomes. Some people don't want to discuss anything or arrange me to do it when no one is there. That's fine, but IMO they are missing out.

One last thing, the fall and early winter is not the time to try and find a sweep. Any decent sweep is going to be overrun and may be unable to take on new clients at those times. Do everyone a favour and get your chimney cleaned in the off season.

I'm not saying this applies to you the original poster, or anyone else in this thread. Just throwing this out there in general.

 

[bholler]

This is very true. I often tell people as with all things not all sweeps are created equal. That's why I encourage people to ask their sweep lots of questions. A good sweep should have proper answers to those questions and shouldn't make it up as they go, which can be hard to ascertain at times. But IMO a good sweep will explain to you the basics of woodburning and should give you details about your system and how to operate it. They should discuss with you proper burning techniques, the importance of cured wood, how to verify what you're doing, and give an overall assessment of your system. Obviously pointing out any deficiencies and documenting them as well as giving options for fixing those deficiencies.

I am the newer sweep in my area and am constantly amazed at how previous sweeps don't even speak to the homeowner. Head down, shuffle soot, collect the pay and out the door. When people ask me how long a sweep takes I let them know to count on it taking a couple of hours for the first time atleast. I'm amazed at how often I hear shock in response, and that the last guy was in and out in half an hour.

The more I can educate my customers the easier my job becomes. Some people don't want to discuss anything or arrange me to do it when no one is there. That's fine, but IMO they are missing out.

One last thing, the fall and early winter is not the time to try and find a sweep. Any decent sweep is going to be overrun and may be unable to take on new clients at those times. Do everyone a favour and get your chimney cleaned in the off season.

I'm not saying this applies to you the original poster, or anyone else in this thread. Just throwing this out there in general.

Most of our repeat cleanings are 1/2 hour or less. But the first time usually takes an hour or more.

 

[Squisher]

I believe you work in teams though right? I work solo which probably explains a lot of the time difference.

 

[begreen]

Our last sweeping a few years back took a bit under an hour for a team of 2 persons. Price was $150. I have done the cleaning with a sooteater since.

Appears that the OP may have left the room. Hope she finds out that the first sweep was overreacting and that she's good to go.

 

[bholler]

I believe you work in teams though right? I work solo which probably explains a lot of the time difference.

Yes that is typically with 2 of us.

 

[Hogwildz]

Yes but when you see flames coming out the top of the chimney that is pretty clear.

And yes I am not saying cleaning more than once a year is bad. But if it is needed it shows that something is not working right.

I had to clean mine 3x the first year. The Oak I was burning was no where near dry enough, and I did what had to be done, but also checked and cleaned more often as I knew the wood was not ready. One does what one must, but at the same time we must be more aware, and not just figure we'll have to clean a little more at the end of the season. By then, it's usually too late, doh.

 

[saewoody]

If you are looking for dry seasoned firewood, in my opinion, it's more effective to buy it a year before you use it, and season it yourself, rather than trying to find a wood seller that is consistently honest.

That’s what I tell all my friends that just burn “for fun”. It’s cheaper and will be more seasoned usually by the time they burn it.


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