Help Diagnose my Jotul Newcastle 635

[Cyanarella]

Hi.. I have a Jotul 635 and when the fan and unit are on high all I am getting out of it is 110 Degree air.
Is this normal? On medium the air outflow and surround will bet to 200 degrees max.

All in all this 40K BTU seems like a dud and won't heat up my room.

Anyone have any experience with this model?

 

[wooduser]

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/989113/J-Tul-Gi-635-Dv-Ipi.html?page=4#manual

The manual specifies that the fireplace can operate withing a range of 8700-40,000 BTUs.

First, when you turn the fireplace through it's heat range, do the flames seem to build and decline reasonably through that range or do they stop and not get bigger at some point?

Is this a natural gas or propane unit?

What other gas appliances do you have in your home, and do they appear to be working normally?

Are you experiencing unusually cold weather at this time?

How long have you been operating the fireplace since it was installed? Have you had this problem consistently since it was installed, or is this a recent change in function?

 

[Cyanarella]

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/989113/J-Tul-Gi-635-Dv-Ipi.html?page=4#manual

The manual specifies that the fireplace can operate withing a range of 8700-40,000 BTUs.

First, when you turn the fireplace through it's heat range, do the flames seem to build and decline reasonably through that range or do they stop and not get bigger at some point?

Is this a natural gas or propane unit?

What other gas appliances do you have in your home, and do they appear to be working normally?

Are you experiencing unusually cold weather at this time?

How long have you been operating the fireplace since it was installed? Have you had this problem consistently since it was installed, or is this a recent change in function?

Yes flames adjust through each level.
We are running on propane.
I have a cook stove top / oven which is working well.
It is winter here in Maine so we’re getting wild ranges across the board.
I have been operating it for 2 months and not happy.

Basically 7 feet in front of this unit is a couch and the only way to get the remote to 72 degrees is if I have my whole house heat on 68 Degrees.

 

[jotulguy]

Hi.. I have a Jotul 635 and when the fan and unit are on high all I am getting out of it is 110 Degree air.
Is this normal? On medium the air outflow and surround will bet to 200 degrees max.

All in all this 40K BTU seems like a dud and won't heat up my room.

Anyone have any experience with this model?

Running the fan on high is not the best way to get heat off of the insert. Try running it on med-med/low. The cold air is taken off your floor and runs around the hot firebox. If it moves to quickly there will not be enough time for it to warm the cold room air.

 

[Millbilly]

Does that unit have a separate front and rear burner? Make sure both are on if so.

 

[wooduser]

Who did you buy it from and whio installed it? Usually you should get a year warrenty on the equipment. I'd call the outfit you bought the fireplace from and have them inspect it.

I'd want them to test the BTU input to the stove, which would involve connecting a manometer to the electric gas valve, measuring the input gas pressure, and checking to see if the main burner gas orifice is the correct size.

The gas pressure test is described on pages 14-15 of the manual.

The main burner gas orifice is part #6 on page 40. The main burner orifice should be checked to be sure it's clean and the proper size.

The gas input to the main burner is a function of the main burner gas pressure and the main burner orifice size and design. If the orifice has some debris in it that plugs it up, that will restrict the burner input as well.

The only way to know if the BTU input to the fireplace is correct with propane is to measure the gas pressure input to the main burner, and inspect the main burner orifice for correct part number (size & design) and that it is free of obstructions (dirty).

You can ask the installer if they did the recommended gas pressure test when installing the fireplace ---the answer is very likely "no." Since they didn;t do it then (because it's something iof a pain in the neck to do), now is a good time.

 

[wooduser]

Does that unit have a separate front and rear burner? Make sure both are on if so.

That's worth checking, although if half the burner weren't lighting I'd expect to be hearing about delayed ignition!

Page 41 part #6 shows only one burner assembly, although it looks like there are three separate flames that should be coming from that one burner. It's certainly worth checking to verify that all the flames are lighting, and that all parts of each flame are lit. Also, I can't tell from the illustration for sure if there are three flames.

Probably worth checking with a mirror to be sure that all parts of the burner are lighting properly.

 

[wooduser]

I am amazed that they apparently expect such a complicated pattern of burner orifices to light reliably under a very wide burner input gas pressure.

However, the burner is a lot more likely to light properly when the BTU setting is on high than when it's low.

 

[Millbilly]

I think i was a little unclear. By two burners I meant split flo. The user can turn off one of the burners so no gas is flowing to it. So he could have flame height set high, but only to one burner. It's how they achieve such a high BTU range.

 

[wooduser]

I think i was a little unclear. By two burners I meant split flo. The user can turn off one of the burners so no gas is flowing to it. So he could have flame height set high, but only to one burner. It's how they achieve such a high BTU range.

The burner illustrated looked like it probably had a single gas input, but I'll have to look closer. The idea of being able to choose one burner or two would be an interesting possibility I hadn't considered.

Notice, though, the wide variation in manifold gas pressure, which would seem to be consistent with using the gas pressure as the means of controlling input. Then again, it lists two main burner orifices, which supports your explanation. I'll have to look further to see what the directions say.

I suppose having different orifices for different elevations could be another way of getting gas input too low if you make the wrong selection.

Manifold Pressure:
MIN
Natural Gas: 1.10 WC (0.27 kPa)
Propane:
2.9 WC (0.72 kPa)
Orifice Sizes:
Altitude:
0 - 2000 ft. (0-610 m)
Rear. Left:
Front, Right:
Altitude:
2000 - 4500 ft. (610-1370 m)
Left:
Rear,
Front, Right:
Steady State Efficiency:
A.F.U.E. Efficiency:
CSA P4.1-02 Fireplace Efficiency: 66.44%
Electronic Ignition (IPI) or Continuous Pilot (CPI)
4
Jøtul GI 635 DV IPI Direct Vent
Gas Fireplace Insert
Manufactured and Distributed by:
Jøtul North America
Gorham, Maine USA
Jøtul AS
Fredrikstad, Norway
MAX.
7.0 WC (1.74 kPa)
14.0 WC (3.48 kPa)
.
MAX.
3.8 WC (0.95 kPa)
11.0 WC (2.74 kPa

 

[wooduser]

I see that there is a "split valve" option on the remote control (Page 34), although there is no description of what that function does that I'm seeing. But it sounds like users can select one or two burners, just as you describe. So checking to see how that option is set would be a very good idea.

My those remote controls are complicated these days! People used to marvel at the idea of being able to turn the fireplace on with a wall switch!

 

[Cyanarella]

Does that unit have a separate front and rear burner? Make sure both are on if so.

It does.

 

[Cyanarella]

I see that there is a "split valve" option on the remote control (Page 34), although there is no description of what that function does that I'm seeing. But it sounds like users can select one or two burners, just as you describe. So checking to see how that option is set would be a very good idea.

My those remote controls are complicated these days! People used to marvel at the idea of being able to turn the fireplace on with a wall switch!

Yes. We can turn off the back burner

 

[wooduser]

Yes. We can turn off the back burner

Since you are aware of this, I suppose that means that you have both burners operating and still not getting the heat you expect as you describe?

(Just to be clear.)

 

[Cyanarella]

Since you are aware of this, I suppose that means that you have both burners operating and still not getting the heat you expect as you describe?

(Just to be clear.)

Yes. This morning I verified that both burners are working properly as well visually. I do not have the tools described above

 

[wooduser]

I think that's about it.

The only way I can think of to verify that you have the 40,000 BTU/hour input you are supposed to have with propane is to have a service agency measure the burner manifold pressure and to check the burner orifices for the correct size and that they are clean and in good operating condition.

The installer ought to do that for you, assuming they have a manometer and the skill to use it, which they very likely do not.

You should ask in advance if any service agency you have come out has a manometer and suitable fitting for checking the burner manifold pressure. All too many lack the equipment and knowledge to do that task properly. Many will have lines of BSW to try to hide the fact though.

You should have the manual on the fireplace printed out with the relevant portions underlined to help the serviceman find the information he needs to check.

 

[Cyanarella]

Hey Everyone... wanted to give you an update. The faculty representative came with the owner of the retail place I purchased it and found a poorly seated burner and some insulation issues. He noted what he found to be 2 inlays not seating correctly which was causing the burner to not seat correctly. He made a temporary fix and ordered the new parts which should be there in the next couple weeks.

My stove is a beast now and it’s everything we wanted. Thank you for all your help.

 

[wooduser]

Glad you seem to be getting the problem resolved. Often it takes a skilled person who can examine things first hand.

We do the best we can with the reports we get....