Help Identifying old chimney system/advice about how to deal with Frankenstein-ed chimney extension.

[JDChevallier]

We bought our home two years ago. It’s a single story home with an add-on unit that sits on the back side of the house. The fire place had a pretty terrible looking chase around it when we bought it and I finally decided to demo it myself. The chimney runs about 18’ from the roof of the 1st story, intersecting the second story roof where it rested in a circular cut-out in the second story roof. The chase had no cap, and I had no experience with fire places or chimneys. I did realize that leaves were accumulating in this structure with no real way of removing them, which made me very worried about the wall the chase shared with the add-on.

The composite material that the chase was sided with was warped badly on many sides, and I while trying to get the leaves out I just pushed on one piece and it gave in. For a while I removed only two pieces low to the roof so I could routinely get in and remove the leaves that built up. But this month was slow at work so I removed the entire siding “skin” from chase along with the trim. The structure of the chase is mostly sturdy, but there was evidence of either fire or just too much heat at the top, and while tearing the siding from the chase structure I was met with a lot of concerning details that were now suddenly visible.

The original chimney could be from when the house was built, but without a doubt is from prior to the second story add-on. When the add on was made, instead of finding matching chimney parts to extent the chimney, the previous owner looks to have purchased two differing widths of duct pipe…one just small enough to tuck into (not over) the old chimney system (so rain running down the chimney would likely run into the old system.) The original system from the first floor looks legitimate to my eye…but. The 10’ that runs from where it ends to the top of the chimney is just a “feaux” double walled fire hazard made by attaching sections of metal duct work (bolted together) then having a smaller section nested inside it to form a fake double wall. The smaller inner duct work that carries the smoke out of the fire place extends beyond the outer wall secdtion, which is just crudely crimped inward. There are signs of wasp nest/dirt dobbers in the opening, and I am certain rain can now get into the duct work.

I am trying to identify the old system, in the hope I can just extent it up properly as it should have been, without having to invest in an entirely new piping system.
But I can’t identify the old system. There is no identifying name or mark stamped into the metal. It’s possible that it is too old to match up with anything?

My first priority is water sealing my home. There are bits of siding that were in bad shape due to the leaves building up and decaying against the house on the shared wall of the chase. I’m trying to determine if the upper roof where the circular cut-out that the chimney leaned against (with a ton of insulation between the roof and the outer wall of the “chimney extention”.

Then I’d like to try to match up the old system and just have an exposed chimney. If we can’t, I suspect a new system is possibly out of our budget for the moment. We’ve used the fire place 3 times in two years, and it never felt like it properly heated the room, if that ever the intent of the fire place. It seems more like a very dangerous source of winter ambiance.

ANY advice is really appreciated. As a new home owner of an older home, I am wishing I’d have thought about the systems in these old houses a little more. This house is the result of a series of owners each adding new bits to the original place, and the choices are often baffling, unfinished, or poorly executed. And there is NO manual for a home. It’s been a really rough learning curve. Right now we are in triage mode…just identifying what is unsafe or executed in a way that is a hazard or leaves the home susceptible to accelerated deterioration.

Below are photos of the chimney and the “bones” of the old chase. Some focus on the old what I assume is a class A system, in hope that I can identify it and possibly find matching parts that will extend it properly. Because there is no stamping in the metal or manufacturers marks (the only thing that isn’t the textur of the metal is som black dots that appear on some places. They look like ink) I also took some close ups of how the old system interlocks, so that might be helpful in identifying it. I took a tape measure and the old pipe is about 40” around when wrapping the tape around it.) Other photos are of the extention, how it’s cobbled together, how it ends, the current cap, and how it intersected with my upper roof (I removed most of the old insulation between the chimney and the roof cut out.)

This is a nightmare but my hope is we can find a way to salvage the fireplace without going broke on an entirely new chimney system. (It’s be about 18” from the exit of the lower roof to the height it needs to be to pass inspection.) But it feels like unless we can identify the old class A system and find parts for it, we may need to consider removing it all, focus on sealing the house, and spend the money on other project that will give us a better return on our investment (like new exterior paint, appliances, etc.) The fireplace was one of the reasons we loved the place….certainly a selling point. But it’s now looking less like a feature of the home and more like an undisclosed hazard.

Thanks folks.
JDC

 

[bholler]

We bought our home two years ago. It’s a single story home with an add-on unit that sits on the back side of the house. The fire place had a pretty terrible looking chase around it when we bought it and I finally decided to demo it myself. The chimney runs about 18’ from the roof of the 1st story, intersecting the second story roof where it rested in a circular cut-out in the second story roof. The chase had no cap, and I had no experience with fire places or chimneys. I did realize that leaves were accumulating in this structure with no real way of removing them, which made me very worried about the wall the chase shared with the add-on.

The composite material that the chase was sided with was warped badly on many sides, and I while trying to get the leaves out I just pushed on one piece and it gave in. For a while I removed only two pieces low to the roof so I could routinely get in and remove the leaves that built up. But this month was slow at work so I removed the entire siding “skin” from chase along with the trim. The structure of the chase is mostly sturdy, but there was evidence of either fire or just too much heat at the top, and while tearing the siding from the chase structure I was met with a lot of concerning details that were now suddenly visible.

The original chimney could be from when the house was built, but without a doubt is from prior to the second story add-on. When the add on was made, instead of finding matching chimney parts to extent the chimney, the previous owner looks to have purchased two differing widths of duct pipe…one just small enough to tuck into (not over) the old chimney system (so rain running down the chimney would likely run into the old system.) The original system from the first floor looks legitimate to my eye…but. The 10’ that runs from where it ends to the top of the chimney is just a “feaux” double walled fire hazard made by attaching sections of metal duct work (bolted together) then having a smaller section nested inside it to form a fake double wall. The smaller inner duct work that carries the smoke out of the fire place extends beyond the outer wall secdtion, which is just crudely crimped inward. There are signs of wasp nest/dirt dobbers in the opening, and I am certain rain can now get into the duct work.

I am trying to identify the old system, in the hope I can just extent it up properly as it should have been, without having to invest in an entirely new piping system.
But I can’t identify the old system. There is no identifying name or mark stamped into the metal. It’s possible that it is too old to match up with anything?

My first priority is water sealing my home. There are bits of siding that were in bad shape due to the leaves building up and decaying against the house on the shared wall of the chase. I’m trying to determine if the upper roof where the circular cut-out that the chimney leaned against (with a ton of insulation between the roof and the outer wall of the “chimney extention”.

Then I’d like to try to match up the old system and just have an exposed chimney. If we can’t, I suspect a new system is possibly out of our budget for the moment. We’ve used the fire place 3 times in two years, and it never felt like it properly heated the room, if that ever the intent of the fire place. It seems more like a very dangerous source of winter ambiance.

ANY advice is really appreciated. As a new home owner of an older home, I am wishing I’d have thought about the systems in these old houses a little more. This house is the result of a series of owners each adding new bits to the original place, and the choices are often baffling, unfinished, or poorly executed. And there is NO manual for a home. It’s been a really rough learning curve. Right now we are in triage mode…just identifying what is unsafe or executed in a way that is a hazard or leaves the home susceptible to accelerated deterioration.

Below are photos of the chimney and the “bones” of the old chase. Some focus on the old what I assume is a class A system, in hope that I can identify it and possibly find matching parts that will extend it properly. Because there is no stamping in the metal or manufacturers marks (the only thing that isn’t the textur of the metal is som black dots that appear on some places. They look like ink) I also took some close ups of how the old system interlocks, so that might be helpful in identifying it. I took a tape measure and the old pipe is about 40” around when wrapping the tape around it.) Other photos are of the extention, how it’s cobbled together, how it ends, the current cap, and how it intersected with my upper roof (I removed most of the old insulation between the chimney and the roof cut out.)

This is a nightmare but my hope is we can find a way to salvage the fireplace without going broke on an entirely new chimney system. (It’s be about 18” from the exit of the lower roof to the height it needs to be to pass inspection.) But it feels like unless we can identify the old class A system and find parts for it, we may need to consider removing it all, focus on sealing the house, and spend the money on other project that will give us a better return on our investment (like new exterior paint, appliances, etc.) The fireplace was one of the reasons we loved the place….certainly a selling point. But it’s now looking less like a feature of the home and more like an undisclosed hazard.

Thanks folks.
JDC

Unfortunately that looks like it needs to be completely removed and replaced.

 

[4x4prepper]

Can you just replace the fireplace with a wood stove and a straight run of pipe straight up through all the stories of the house?

Is the (brick?) fireplace connected to a 8" pipe at the top and that is surrounded by a 12" flue pipe that the owner added on when adding the second story?

 

[begreen]

Picture of the fireplace please. It sounds like an old zero-clearance unit.