Help! Insert install problem. **UPDATE**

[mxvet747]

I am a newbe & could use some sound advice. I just picked up a hampton hi200 to install in my zc fireplace. This insert will fit, but I have a problem. As you can see from the pics below the insert is set back into the hearth 3 1/2". I was gonna fill in the gap between the brick face & the zc box with mortar & install the insert. I am also gonna raise the hearth floor protection to meet the opening so it would look better. I have now discovered that the hearth is all 1/2" brick face instead of regular bricks. To make matters worse, the brick facing is installed on top of 1/2" drywall. At first I thought it was cement board, but it is regular sheetrock. The good news is the area around the fireplace opening is framed out with metal studs & there is no un-protected wood close to the fireplace opening. So from what I have gathered the drywall is a combustible & needs to be protected by more than a 1/2" of brick. The brick opening is 37"x25" & the hampton insert is only 22 3/4" x 19" so I have lots of room to work with at the top & sides. The bottom is were I have trouble. I only have 3/4" between the stove bottom & the brick on the bottom of the opening. It needs to be level with the zc box opening so I was planning on putting cement board the, but now I am stuck. I understand this whole thing is not kosher in the first place since the zc box is set back in 3 1/2 " , but I want to figure out a safe way to make it work. Two insert installers told me it was ok to do as long as the gap between the zc box & brick was filled , but this is when we thought it was standard size brick. I can protect the brick/drywall or remove it & put cement board , micor, over the metal framing.

Any advice is welcomed. I have been lurking here for over a year & have finally been able to get a stove so I hope I can make this work somehow..

 

[buckdog]

is that a gas pipe? and was that intended or designed for wood burning appliances? wood is much different than gas. also what is that flue made of? terracota or ss and is it insulated?

 

[mxvet747]

is that a gas pipe? and was that intended or designed for wood burning appliances? wood is much different than gas. also what is that flue made of? terracota or ss and is it insulated?

This is a zc rated for solid fuel. That is a gas pipe that was used for a gas log set , then later a gas starter for burning wood. The shase is insulated & the there is a 10"stainless pipe inside a 12" pipe, inside a 14 or 15" pipe. I am gonna use a ss flex liner & a block off plate at the top around the flex liner. Here is what the chimny looks like.

 

[mxvet747]

Anyone? Am I the only one that has had this problem with the prefab box being set back into the hearth? Hope there is somebody who can help..

 

[jtp10181]

OK so the brick on the wall is not full brick from what I understand? They framed out a wall (steel studs) on top of the unit (which is legal) and then covered it with drywall (aka paper faced gypsum board, not legal). And then put face bricks on it? Let me know if I am understanding this correct and we can move forward.

 

[mxvet747]

Yes, you are correct.

 

[jtp10181]

I cannot think of anything except removing the drywall that is in clear violation of clearances for any prefab ZC wood unit. When was this house built? Do you know what model wood unit that is? Looks like a heatilator to me... I80 maybe.

 

[mxvet747]

It is a temtex TBF36 3

 

[mxvet747]

the builder had it set up with a gas log set in it. Built in like 1993

 

[mxvet747]

Ok so the sheetrock backed brick is no good. What if I get gid of it around the opening were the insert will be next to , can I leave it on the facing? I am thinking that the facing is not gonna get that hot right??

 

[Hogwildz]

Ok so the sheetrock backed brick is no good. What if I get gid of it around the opening were the insert will be next to , can I leave it on the facing? I am thinking that the facing is not gonna get that hot right??

Nada, check the clearance to combustibles in your manual. I know for my Summit, no combustible 8" on either side, includes the face of the wall.
Perfect time to tear that off, leave the steel studs, put some durock on, and put cultured stone on, would look great.

Just looked at your photo again. Are the face bricks veneers also, or real? What is behind them? Sheetrock also?

 

[mxvet747]

I think all the brick is 1/2"" face only. There are steel studs right around the box but I can see wood studs out farther

 

[mxvet747]

hmm , my book says 7 3/8" side facing & 14" above.. :-(

 

[Hogwildz]

hmm , my book says 7 3/8" side facing & 14" above.. :-(

How far out are the wood studs?
Those bricks at the floor at front of the firebox look thicker than 1/2". But the might be veneer corner bricks to give it the look of depth.

 

[mxvet747]

The wood is 7"-15" away & there are 2 metal studs bofore you get to wood. Yes that brick fooled me too.. lol.. It is just a corner cap

 

[mxvet747]

another image

 

[Hogwildz]

The wood 7" away has to come out. Also make sure you nave no wood above the firebox in the area that there is to be no combustibles.
You might be able to remove the veneer as needed and save it, cut all wood & drywall out only as far away as needed, and replace with steel studs & Durock. Then reapply the veneer.
Nothing is going to be easy as just sticking an insert in there. But your situation does not allow that.
I still say tear all that brick off, make it right, then either re-brick veneer it, or use cultured stone. But that is just my opinon.

 

[jtp10181]

Hog has a good idea. Might not be bad idea to remove all the face brick, remove the wall studded out in front of the unit, then put cultured stone flat on the wall flush with the unit.

 

[mxvet747]

The wood 7" away has to come out. Also make sure you nave no wood above the firebox in the area that there is to be no combustibles.
You might be able to remove the veneer as needed and save it, cut all wood & drywall out only as far away as needed, and replace with steel studs & Durock. Then reapply the veneer.
Nothing is going to be easy as just sticking an insert in there. But your situation does not allow that.
I still say tear all that brick off, make it right, then either re-brick veneer it, or use cultured stone. But that is just my opinon.

That wood that is 7" is from the hearth opening. The insert is small & would still be about 15" away, is that ok? I am so pissed cause the reason I got this insert was that it was one of the only ones that would of fit because the zc box is set back in. Now if I have to do all this work I think I could have gotten the hi300 or the jotul 550 & made them fit. I can't return this stove either. I thought I was getting a great deal on the stove but now I see that hampton is giving the blower away for free, so I could have got this same price elsewhere.

 

[mxvet747]

Could this stuff that looks like gypsum board be some type of mineral board? What does micor look like?

 

[Bubbavh]

How would you feel about returning the insert and putting in a hearth pad and putting a stove on it if you have the room. Might save a lot of work and headaches. Who knows what else is behind that wall.

Just a thought.

edit: was a little too slow posting and just saw you can not return it. Looks like demo time.

 

[jtp10181]

Could this stuff that looks like gypsum board be some type of mineral board? What does micor look like?

micore is soft. If it has a paper backing on it, its drywall. No paper and you are probably safe.

 

[mxvet747]

It has paper so it must be drywall. Ok, I will take the brick & drywall off the bottom opening surface & replace it with wonder board. I am gonna use sheet metal or cement board heat shields with a 1"+ air space to achieve the propper distance for the top & sides. I am going by the distance from the stove body (not the surround) per the tag on the stove. I am just gonna leave the facing as is. The facing at the opening has 2 layers of the brick & only the surround will be close to it. The facing on the bottom may get hot, but I think I will build the hearth up to meet the box opening. I will try it & measure the temps on the facing & surround with an IR thermometer to see how hot it will get. If it is too hot I will demo the whole thing. I would like to demo it & do the cultured stone as suggested, but that is $$ & time for a small insert. How hot could the bottom of the insert get? How hot is the air that is blowing out of the bottom of this gonna be?

 

[mxvet747]

What if I just filled this vertical gap here with 1/2" - 3/4" cement board? So it would be 1/2 - 3/4" cement board over 1/2" brick, over 1/2" sheetrock on steel framing. I know this is not code but do you think it would work? Do you think the heat would make the sheetrock crumble over time?

 

[jtp10181]

The only known safe way to do it, is for it to be proper by the manual. You need a manual for your ZC box and make sure that is installed properly first, then you need to properly install the insert according to the manual. That is the only way it will be known to be safe. Otherwise you can guess and speculate all you want, but you wont know.