Help ! Installation Question

[newbie0923]

Newbie here...

I've been waiting for this day for a long time....finally had the Jotul Allegash Gas stove installed today. When I got the call from the installer that he was almost complete, I hurried home to see, and enjoy, the fireplace at long last.

Yikes!

I am venting the stove vertically straight through the ceiling, and rather than the vent meeting the ceiling flush, there is a large black box surrounding where the vent meets the ceiling.

Is this normal ? Could the vent not have been made flush with the ceiling itself ? Could this black box, if required, not have been installed between the ceiling joists above the drywall ?

When I questioned the installer, he said that is simply the way they do it. But I'm not buying it. Looks terrible. I'm hoping I can confirm that this could have been installed a lot "cleaner".

Please take a look at the attached picture, and let me know if I'm simply off the mark. I have not made final payment, and they seem like very nice people, but before I call them again tomorrow I thought I would get a little smarter on the topic.

Thanks for your help !!

 

[Homefire]

It looks fine to me.
Would you rather have the
pipe jammed into the drywall so it could
burn the paper and violale the install
codes?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

the box could be higher, it does need to be betwen joists. the way i would have done it is to use a 940 wall thimble cover and pass the pipe throug that. its a lot lower profile. That box is designed for cathedral celings, but will work on flat celings.
If that was galvinized pipe he painted, i hope he etched it with vinigar first, otherwise it will peel. If its painted on top of the black pipe you should be fine.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

It looks fine to me.
Would you rather have the
pipe jammed into the drywall so it could
burn the paper and violale the install
codes?

the direct vent pipe that was installed only has a 2" clearance to combustables. That box was not necessary. THere is other, cleaner ways to do it but its a perfectly ligit install.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

here is a copy of the pipe catalog, on page 12 is the other option, even though its not realy a option now with out major work.

(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/Catalogs/L901.pdf)

here is a copy of the install instructions, get your story strait before you call, but honestly thats a pretty ugly install. I would have at least painted the box white. i would ask them to put the box 2" below the finished celing and pait it to match the pipe. That would be a good compromise.

(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/instruct/L950_nov99.pdf)

 

[newbie0923]

Thanks...

Its it salvageable without a lot of rework ?

I'm OK with he outer square, which attaches to the ceiling (via the 2x4 joists). Is there a lower-profile insert that will fit within the square ?

Perfectly ligit is one thing...looks like a POS install is another.

The first thing the wife said was...."nice stove, but what's with the ugly black thing?"

All the Jotul documentation and pictures I can find show a low-profile install to the ceiling.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

the box can be further up in the celing, within 2" like i said. Not much rework at all. the 942 in the catalog is even lower profile, but would take much more work.
look over the installation manual i sent you.

 

[Webwidow]

At the very least the black box should have been painted to match the pipe. Your wife is correct, I would not be pleased with the ascetics of that install. The large black box catches the eye and distracts from the flow of the unit.
However, the stove is beautiful, enjoy.
I burned a gas Jotul in my previous home and loved it.

 

[hearthtools]

Most Codes require you to have the box.
it real reason is a Radiation shield to keep combustables 2" from the pipe.

The 940 Wall thimble cover (See MSG post) is what I would have used and paited it white because the Flat ceiling BUT most inspectors Will catch us on this and ask us to put some kind of radiaion Shield in the Attic above it.

Most of the time I incurage my customers to have the pipe any color than white because white will fade and show finger prints in the future. Most enamel stoves are BLACK at the back where the pipe connects so paiting the pipe black makes The color flow better.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

the 940 is also a listed flat celing support...and i agree that it looks nicer. In this installation i would just slip up the catherdral box he has up further and paint it. Actually i would paint it all black for the reasons stated by Rod.

 

[Shane]

I would agree, paint the box and move it up. The 940 would have been a fine alternative, but like Rod pointed out they may have used the box instead due to your local authorities requirements. I would contact the shop and ask why the box was used instead of the 940, and why it was not color matched to the pipe.

MSG, I've never heard of having to etch galvanized pipe. I've painted tons of it with no ill effects that have been reported. I always use paint prep then wash that down with windex prior to painting. Could one of those two cleaners have the same stuff in it that the vinegar has?

 

[hearthtools]

We never use the Factory black pipe
it does not match any stove and Cost WAY TO MUCH paint is only $8 a can.
We Use GOOFOFF to take off the label on the pipe and to prep it. for Pellet and Gas vent
BTW I think Duravent uses the same Glue they use to hold the tiles on the space shuttle to glue the lable.

When it is COLD out we use a MAPP gas Plumbing torch to Heat up the paint and the pipe before we paint.

 

[Shane]

Yeah I did forget to mention the goof off, I guess I didn't think it was necessary since we only put it where the label glue is. The mapp gas torch does work, we've done that with the pipe, usually I'll just grab warm can of paint from the shelf. Something about torches and aerosol cans in such close proximity to the dome rubs me wrong ;-)

 

[hearthtools]

Yeah I did forget to mention the goof off, I guess I didn't think it was necessary since we only put it where the label glue is. The mapp gas torch does work, we've done that with the pipe, usually I'll just grab warm can of paint from the shelf. Something about torches and aerosol cans in such close proximity to the dome rubs me wrong ;-)

When you do 3 installs a day you dont have the luxury of pulling warm paint off the shelf.
it comes from the cans off the truck that is 20 Deg. But one thing we try to do is keep paint on the dash and let the defroster keep them warm.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

i just sell the installers and homeowners black pipe. It matches close enough. even if you had a cast iron stove painted duravent black it still wouldnt match. cast iron and steel look different painted with the same paint. The factory paint job is done well, and my guys dont have to carry around torches or anything... why go to all that trouble?

 

[newbie0923]

Thanks for the replies.

The fire inspector stopped by today, and he is questioning the installation due to clearance from an existing brick wall.

He is also requriring the installer to open up the installation so he can verify how it was done above the ceiling.

So I have two questions:

If they have to open up the box and take out the venting so he can see above the ceiling, would it really be that big of a deal to change the install to the low-profile approach ?

Second - please take a look at the attached (third) picture....does this change any of the previous dialogues as to why the installer chose the catherdral venting vs. the flat ceiling venting ? This is the sunroom in which the stove is being installed.

Thanks much for your help

 

[hearthtools]

I think 90 % of the installers are going to use a square support box.
this is just the way it has been done for Wood Gas and pellet for years
the 940 has only been around for a few years and most people use it on the wall.

Im my area You need to use the support box because of the radiation sheilding it gives.

Now about the inspection.
I never had an inspector ask to take down the pipe to be inspected.
if that was the case we would have to have the inspector at the job site as we are installing the stove. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

[BrotherBart]

I don't know the answers to the technical issues here, the experts will fill you in on that, but let that inspector help you get what you want. When my first house was built they did something stupid with the custom panelling fronting the kitchen. I argued with the builder for a long time about fixing it and he refused.

The day the building inspector came to do the occupancy inspection he looked at me and said "Do you want that mess fixed?" and I replied "Yes.".

The inspector put a number 11 shoe right through the piece of panelling and looked at the builder and said "Any questions?". The builder went bananas. But he fixed it.